snakebite

To be fair, I don't think the public offer is just solely that 461m from the city, I'm pretty sure there will be a county contribution of some sort and quite possibly state funding too.

I would laugh but be totally not surprised if someone complained about parking.

Pretty disappointing. My gut instinct is this will not be financially productive for the bus companies moving out West. Barons provides one of the few reasonable links from CLE to various far flung parts of Ohio so it's disappointing to lose that point2point journey and that is the selling point of the service for many. It doesn't make sense either if you are only going to Akron to double your journey time heading out to Brook Park or add significant time if say you are heading in the opposite direction to Pittsburgh or Buffalo or something. That said there's also so few alternatives for regional travel in NEO that I still wouldn't be surprised if the drop off in passenger numbers isn't particularly drastic because of this. They need to come up with something. The CSU safety stuff is nonsense especially if the Downtown alternative is college kids waiting for a bus at a quiet, open to the elements curbside stop late in the day. I also get the impression however that these companies would happily operate out of a crack house if it was a cent cheaper than a Downtown area.

And soon enough when the shine wears off, the same suburbanites will also make similar complaints about Brook Park. It'll begin with complaints about anti social behavior, probably just teenagers hanging around or a homeless person or two or a few drunks at bars or football games - the proximity to an RTA station will also be blamed for being too inviting to "undesirables". Then sprinkles of low level crime like shoplifting or a car theft. Eventually there will probably be an isolated one off stabbing or shooting and the same people will be overreacting calling Brook Park a no go zone, dangerous whatever it may be and that will be it and it'll be onto the next subsidized suburban development even further from the city on some brownfield. These things also happen Downtown and in any major city but the difference is Downtown is robust enough and has a diverse range of attractions that it can cope with these type of things. Brook Park outside football games will be completely reliant on flakey suburbanites who will just abandon it and move onto the next destination because beyond a football stadium there will be no reason to go there for things they can't do or get elsewhere.

I find a similar mentality across the country sadly. People in KC scoffed about having to walk .5 miles from the new Royals Stadium Downtown to the Power and Light District. If they think KC or Cleveland have parking or traffic problems then it just shows how sheltered some really are. They live in their suburban bubbles of convenience, driving from strip mall to strip mall in their trucks and SUV's and circling round the parking lots for 10 minutes to get close spaces at Target. Same way if they parked an extra block or two further from CBS if they ever actually go to games they would get in and out much easier as they are so concerned about. I wouldn't waste my energy on them. These people would strip Downtown until there is nothing left. One good thing Cleveland has done compared to peer cities is we haven't pillaged our Downtown like a lot of them have and sent assets to the suburbs. All our pro sports teams are here, our main state educational establishments, our business community (for the most part), has supported Downtown. This isn't 1972 anymore and I'd rather not start now.

Now don't I look a bit silly with the mix up. Still I think if Cuyahoga County dropped 250m into the Brook Park site as opposed to Downtown I know where I'd expect the safer investment to be out of the two. I am curious to know what the max contribution of the County could be. They were pretty clear today they can't afford and won't put up as much as 600m.

We are lucky to have him. Some of his language was a tad cringe worthy at times I thought, but you can't deny his passion and his recognition of the bigger picture. Compared to Erie County NY County Executive Mark Poloncarz who rolled over and gave 600m of tax payer money for an isolated suburban stadium in Buffalo.

No city and no county cash. Guinness book of records beer sales needed to pay those Brook Park bonds and if they default who cares, it's someone else's money!

Good little lapdogs will be rewarded with their free studio space at Disneyland I'm sure as part of the pillaging of tenants from elsewhere in the region.

Truman Sports Complex is in an industrial dump of an area off i435/70 that in the 70's they thought would be a desirable suburb for years to come. No one would ever want to visit or live in this area otherwise - I live literally 15 minutes away. Due to the location of the stadiums it's why the success of the team on the field and the pop culture currently around the Chiefs has not actually contributed to any growth. All the growth in KC is in the suburbs. It's a suburban city with a suburban mentality and stuff like Brook Park just leads us down that road. Suburban stadiums, overbuilt grossly incentivized suburban retail and office space in an already over saturated market, extra lanes on already overbuilt highways that are not needed bar 10-12 days per year. Who needs public transport? As if the Browns care about building or repairing sidewalks adjacent to this development, they want people contained in their walled off world. Funnily the Chiefs are also now using the state of Kansas to access bonds to potentially build a domed stadium and mixed use development 15 miles west of Downtown near the KS speedway and MLS stadium. One of the most egregious examples of corporate welfare but much easier to publicly present than a blank check or allowing people to vote on. It's incredibly sneaky. I get there needs to be a give and take with stadium funding, especially in smaller to middling markets like Cleveland, but the NFL wish lists for stadium development is becoming absolutely ridiculous at this point. They are actually pretty disgusting when you factor in the wealth of the people making these requests.

Really? The city will benefit from this and the stadium is falling apart? Just reads like a shill piece of someone in the Browns pocket. They're doing a really good job of getting all those with a platform online whether it be radio, Cleveland.com etc to tow their party line. Just some laughable bordering propaganda out there currently. I've been to stadiums that are "falling apart" in the minors, college sports and Europe, I guess basic is just what constitutes a death trap these days in the NFL. Also can't wait for them to steal other non football tenants from elsewhere in the region to try and sustain Disneyland. It's really going to make things that much better for everyone... Not a penny for this horse s**t should go from the tax payer to this.

Wehttps://www.clevescene.com/news/as-cleveland-makes-stadium-pitch-optimism-in-brook-park-after-meetings-with-haslam-reps-for-new-dome-44846659 Meeting last Wednesday between HSG and Brook Park. Disneyland and Crocker Park is the vision! Still trying to figure out how to pay for it, with it likely going to be a heavy lean on the State as opposed to the County. This is going to get very messy I think.

The stadium being next to an existing critical mass is a good thing, IMO. I just don't see how on isolated walled off island in Brook Park it supports and sustains development.

Only 60k seats there too and literally able to build the the stadium on parcel ready parking lots across the street. I think they would need around 1.5bn at least from public funds for Brook Park just for the stadium alone. Grotesque amount for a suburban site that provides no ROI and just cannibalizes other suburban destinations. I also find it head scratching they want very similar mixed use development only five miles apart in Berea and Brook Park. If they were totally balls in on the suburbs would surely make sense to combine everything. Like the Star in Dallas but with an added stadium as a training facility alone isn't going to spur vibrancy in suburban Cleveland like it might do in Dallas.

I like this. It's an extremely hard ask balancing not losing the team as well as protecting the public. Selfishly I am also just at total burn out with the stadium carousel, although that's probably compounded being in KC just now where it's ten times worse. They clearly prefer Brook Park but I just don't know how they find the cash for it all. The County Exec also advised he would prefer the team remains Downtown so I just don't see that being a huge funding source for BP. The State would offer some assistance but I just would be stunned if they gave what is needed for that particular site.

Was out in suburban KC yesterday at the Kansas Speedway and in KC and the Midwest in general (those red states really) I feel there is a huge fascination with parking as close to a destination as possible - there was ridiculous levels of cars driving round in circles to try and find close parking spaces to the outlet mall. People are married to convenience whether that be driving or parking literally at the front door of Target or Chick fil-a, and if they can't do so, its gnashing and complaining. People in KC complained about having to potentially walk 0.5 miles from a new Royals stadium to the Power and Light District or to walk the same distance to a parking lot. People are entitled and thats a long time from ever changing in this part of the world.

Oh I think a lot of us agree this is a dream scenario, but a lot of us are also battle hardened and don't want to get hurt either so we are holding back somewhat!

The "fan experience" reeks of the same stuff the Chiefs peddled which was basically upgrades for the high rollers in the suites. IIRC CBS had the video boards upgraded around 10 years ago? Arrowhead has ancient video boards by comparison and that was also factored. Another "upgrade" was implementing things such as "grab and go" concession areas. September will be my first visit to CBS for several years so I have no idea if those types of things already exist. A few newer MLS stadiums and arenas I've been to have those amenities. Perhaps increased cover of the existing seating areas to shelter fans from the elements? My preference right now would be to renovate and by the time a 25-30 year lease is up surely to heck there is a decision or even action on major projects like the long term future of Burke and we are somewhere on extending the CVRR to Downtown which would have wider influence on placement of a stadium. Then maybe we can look at a new build somewhere else, or not. I hate this mantra that the stadium is a crumbling death trap. You'd think we were talking about some run down soccer stadium in Europe or Latin America. It's just basic at this point compared to most of the NFL new builds.

What markets can get stadiums built without public funding these days? NYC, LA? Even in Chicago the Bears and the White Sox are asking for public funding. It sucks, bordering on grotesque but this is the landscape unfortunately. Even with "new money" wealthy business owners like the Haslams, as opposed to families like the Browns in Cincinnati whose whole wealth is tied up in the value of the team, there isn't much movement in the direction of owners or the leagues footing more of the bill.

All things considered our major cities in regions do alright when it comes to the fortune rankings, infact so does little old Toledo. Of course there are companies due to private ownership and other things such as legal domiciles/registered offices etc being abroad that they don't show, but otherwise it's a good barometer of a cities corporate climate I feel. KC you could say is a peer to all three of the big Ohio cities and we only have one f500 company (in the 400s and falling) and another four in the f1000.

https://fox8.com/news/not-looking-at-a-dome-cleveland-officials-say-dome-downtown-not-part-of-stadium-talks/ I mean it's nice to hear some acknowledgement of things and not the stone silence as before but I still feel there is a naive attitude from the city almost taking for granted that they could go to Brook Park. Same here in KC where somewhat where there is a lot of work into getting the Chiefs to come over to Kansas whilst Missouri and Jackson County is sort of sticking their head in the sand saying they won't move because they've always played in KCMO.

Sorry slightly off topic. I had to giggle slightly at all the replies under your Twitter post where folk thought the news was Browns related however as usual a quick read of your prior forum posts before a bomb pointed in a completely different direction. 😆

Think its actually less than what Tennessee and Buffalo are paying for their new digs although if we are talking economies of scale, the Titans one is going to generate far more return on investment than the Bills and Jags. I'd expect Jacksonville will probably be in the middle of them somewhere given its a better location within its metro than Buffalo's and its a better weather climate for attracting neutral events.

That’s not what Mayor Justin Bibb’s administration wants from the downtown lakefront. Their values are based on a different set of experiences and backgrounds. He and his chiefs want it accessible to all Clevelanders. They want the lakefront to be a place that people of all incomes, races and backgrounds can enjoy equally. I know I'm being facetious somewhat here but is there an invisible wall planned above the expressway which would prevent people with lower income from accessing the area? If their stance is to die on a hill over this sort of social justice then that's frankly ridiculous. Brook Park on the whiter, more affluent, car centric west side sounds far more inaccessible to me to poor people from minority backgrounds. Cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Chiefs plans for a domed stadium in Kansas surrounded by tonnes of parking and mixed use development leaked tonight. I'm sure comparisons will be made in Cleveland. Difference is however the Chiefs are already playing in a rundown suburb and the Village West area of Kansas City KS is already well established with the Kansas Speedway, MLS stadium, a casino, large retail area and a minor league baseball stadium.