cadmen

Yes but...are these plans something that WILL come to fruition in my lifetime or will they just lie on a shelf gathering dust along with all the other plans that never happen? We have two great assets that many cities would kill for - the river and the lakefront. Unfortunately those assets are inversely proportional to our ability to develop them properly. So yeah, in a perfect world put that occupied 15 day a year stadium and those legions of parking spaces somewhere other than the lakefront. But as Clevelanders we know the world is not perfect. So we're faced with the possibility of a bird in the hand (lakefront stadium) vs. birds in the bush (better potential future development). Besides, we don't have the money for a BP stadium anyway. Do we?

I love that game. Always interesting to me.

Man @dave2017 if you aren't an urban planner you should be. You have clearly articulated what makes an urban park successful.

All this talk of expanded passenger rail is making me dizzy. Rail is by far my favorite form of transportation. Too bad there aren't more people who think like that. In America we rail lovers are a distinct minority.

Kent State and Kent city are looking good.

The article mentions that this is just a preliminary design but l already love it. Don't change anything. Hurry up and build it before everybody puts their two cents in and ruins it or worse, "market forces" prevent it from getting built at all.

Well guys, if this last bit of intrigue is true l'm all for it. Why? Because in spite of some publicly funded stadium pushback around the country l think for the most part cities are still footing a good chunk of the bill and here...we are too. Because the "ruse" keeps the team dowtown. Because l think Haslam really wants a ballpark village and he will fork over most if not all the cost of building one. Because we get a bridge to the lakefront. Because we finally get the lakefront developed. Because all of this keeps the energy and investment downtown instead of more sprawl. Because we really DON'T have the money to waste on a pie in the sky plan in BP.

Don't forget the additional cost of re-configuring the area surface roads and highway ramps plus a possible RTA extension. The pace of ODOT decision making alone will add years to the build out. I still haven't heard where all the billions in investment are coming from. Unless Haslam is planning on paying for most of it himself l just don't see it happening.

Man, we're all gettin old.

Let the arm twisting begin.

This a not an unexpected let-down. I have this little fantasy where CSU becomes our version of the University of Pittsburgh. We grow a respected university with, say, 35,000 students and the usual classrooms/dorms and campus life. This happens every time we get these CSU plans that look to expand its footprint only to see them fall flat because doing so in a time of limited resources (including a shrinking tradional 18-22 year old cohort) makes it impossible. It's especially frustrating because every American city worth its salt has a viable and large public university. If you don't have one it's like a gap toothed smile. You may not notice it so much when it's there but you sure notice it when it's not.

^ Perfect. Kills two birds with one stone. We save one of the city's beautiful old structures while getting affordable housing at the same time. We need more projects like this.

Great spot for a OC (boutique?) hotel. Every time l park across from the Ignatius field and walk through that parking lot l think what a great spot for a little hotel or a 5-6 story condo building. I say that because it T-bones into Market Ave. which is one of the great little streets in Cleveland. Right now when you leave Market Ave. you're looking at a non-discript parking lot. Quite a visual comedown from the ambiance of Market Ave. But with this new addition the whole becomes greater than the parts which should be the intent of every new urban development. More bang for your buck. Now we just need a design that compliments its surroundings which Whalen is capable of.

Can't wait! Wait, l have to wait.

Why it's almost like you have no faith.

If l had to l'd settle for a 49 story hotel. I never want to get too greedy. Manage those expectations people.

All of us here are pointing out the negatives while Ken has said the decision has already been made. I read that as it's BP. But l still don't see where the billions are coming from unless Haslam knows something we don't. If he wants to add a village around the stadium he'll have to build that himself and that's on top of his share of a dome. Really?? I think the best option is the by the way news that the city will work with the team to use the land north of the stadium to create a village. That can work. The team stays downtown, neither Haslam nor the taxpayer's are on the hook for several billion for a dome, village and infrustruture. Haslam and the city gets revenue from the village at a much lower cost. Let's hope saner heads prevail and the project gets built downtown.

Those no windows sides are rough.

I disagree. I think it was smart and good politics at the same time. If there is a decision coming soon he got out in front of it. If the move is to BP he has put something on the table so he can say he offered. Limits any political fallout. No "Bibb lost the Browns." And maybe it is a real proposal. If Haslam can't find those few billions he might be forced to accept Bibb's offer. I still have a hard time believing that kind of money is there.

If the Browns move to BP what happens to the city money? The name says " Cleveland" but if the stadium is in BP how does Bibb sell giving city money for a stadium in BP? It will still be very difficilt for NEO to finance a dome with or without Cleveland money. It will require an awful lot of compromising. BP or at least the Haslams seem to have all the momentum but l still don't see how the dollars add up.

Using economic ROE as the only criteria (l realize that's not the ONLY measurement when building something) it seems to me that the best use of Burke is for office, retail and residentual. Followed by its continuation as an airport and finally as a park. The first and best choice will probably not get done in my lifetime. The second choice already exists so nothing needs to be done. That leaves the third choice which l think is doable because it's affordable. Close the airport and turn it into something like Stanley Park in Vancouver. Not much more than trails and trees. We could certainly afford that. Just imagine a real wilderness squeezed in between the lake and downtown. Pretty cool AND doable.

As someone who spent a lifetime working within the world of FDA rules and regulations l can appreciate(?) the necessity of compliance in dealing with federal agencies. Ft l So we are required to have public engagement among other things. The process will be so long whatever comes out of these meetings will mostly be irrelevant by the time a plan is formulated. That's the government for you. Democracy is REALLY messy.

I'm always curious when l read that a paticular company is difficult to work with. Here you have a firm hired to lease apartments. They are working directly with the public. And they are so difficult to work with they have to be replaced. I understand there has to be some give and take in a litigious and complex society that is modern day America but still, if the idea is to lease out apartments shouldn't that be your first goal? Putting up roadblocks that protect the company and discourage leasing should come, at best second.

And whatever comes from these meetings will be impacted by whatever the Browns decide. So what exactly is the point of holding public meetings now when the stadium may or may not be on the lakefront in the future? Citizen engagement?

Not that my opinion matters but after careful consideration, lol, l am hoping that the Centennial building is chosen for the new courthouse. I say that because l'm afraid we will lose the building due to the difficulty in re-purposing it for residential and retail. As beautiful and amazing as the L shaped lobby is its very grandure makes it extremely difficult to find a way for it to pay for itself. But that same lobby makes for a perfect use as the entrance for a new courthouse. Absolutely ideal. Sure, in a perfect world the building gets turned into a great residential space along with successful retail but l'm afraid that won't happen and we d**k around until it faces the wrecking ball. So let's just call it a day with all the hopes and prayers and turn it into a courthouse. At the very least doing so would greatly enliven 9th & Euclid again and save one of Cleveland's grand dames in the process.