cadmen

I tried that for 2 nights back in the 70's. It got old real fast lol.

Thanks for the article Ken. On the surface this may be our best shot. The development area is massive, the parties complex and the dollars...well let's just say it's going to cost way more than the city has. The solution, as you noted is tapping local, state and federal funding. Throw in private money (Haslam) and we have a shot at finally addressing a long term problem. That's really the only way to do this. Time for some arm twisting by our politicians in Columbus and D.C. to get this thing going!

So...chicken or egg? Which comes first?

^ ln this case my frustration is not about the process but in fact my over-reacton to what looks like an absolutely amazing design and a great addition to the neighborhood only to read it's just a concept and not an actual proposal. My fault really, but still, l hate when we see a great design only to find it's not actually a proposal at all. Or worse, it IS a proposal and then begins the watering down process and we end up with a stunted and ugly Bridgeworks building. Ken says don't lose any sleep over it but that's hard to do when we want to see our city move forward with great looking projects. And sure, in the grand scheme of things none of this really matters, we'll all be dead someday. But while we're alive we can dream can't we?

Seems like that came out of nowhere. I didn't even know it was up for discussion. I guess elections really do matter lol.

^ Maaaan

I know. It's easy for me to say it especially when l'm retired. But l still believe there are benifits to working on the job. Benifits like creating relationships or those random conversations that create an idea or a better way to do something not to mention what is perhaps the best reason. Which is working along people can foster more positive mental health. Social isolation can create problems. Selfishly, l think WFH is bad for downtown on so many levels but of course there are many positive reasons as well. Actually l think the best approach is the hybrid model. 3 or 4 days on the job and 1 or 2 at home. Regardless of the approach WFH is here to stay.

Crap. I hate WFH.

I've wanted to attend. You wouldn't know it from my posts but l'm a little introverted. Although once l get going l can't shut up lol.

I have a bad feeling about that lot...might be there awhile.

Not saying this is the case but that blank wall may be the surgical suites. I spent 5 years doing research at the Cole and typically surgical suites don't have windows. I thought l read that with this expansion they were also going to expand surgery so they may have put it in this new building.

Wow! That cruise ship.

I've seen worse.

When l read about these kind of things happening or the car doing doughnuts around a fire in Playhouse Square my heart sinks. Those of us who love cities and vibrant urban spaces are so discouraged when they happen. The reasons behind that kind of activity are so complex it's almost impossible to see a remedy. I don't want to lose hope, l'll continue to love cities and follow them but, man, it's hard sometimes.

Maybe it's just me but the only way a project of this magnitude gets built is with state and local government kicking in a billion dollars. Who sees that happening? If Haslam is serious about a dome in this location he's going to have to contribute most of the money. Sure he can afford it but unless he wants this for his ego l don't see him footing most of the bill. So it's back to downtown probably with a re-build on the current site. Which l'm ok with. I don't want the team leaving downtown anyway. Based on reports coming from other cities pushing back on these crazy stadium prices maybe the tide is beginning to turn. Two plus billion for a football stadium is one thing in the mega markets but for the Kansas City's and Cleveland's of this world they are simply an indulgence we can't (and shouldn't) contemplate.

I love the blue glass, if only because it's not our usual beige. It may not age well because it's common enough around the country but, for now at least it modernizes the skyline here and we needed that. My only complaint is the top. I think it looks clunky. But, l suppose it's like a lot of movies...good start that reels you in but the finish is lackluster. What can put the development over the top is not phase ll but what the buildings on the St.Clair, West 6th area look like. A smart architect would design several 5-6 story buildings that bridge the old wharehouse structures with the modern glass tower. Unfortunately l'm not expecting that.

By some metrics we seem to be doing better than in the past sure, but in others we have a real problem that is not going to go away any time soon, if ever. The cost of housing is one, both rental and owner occupied. Last year I bought a very old house in Lakewood for $299,000. A simiar house across the street just sold for$375,000. The price history of my house shows it was bought and sold several times in the last 5 years starting with $129,000. So in five years time the houses went from $129,000 to $375,000. I think that's a problem for those entering the housing market. The other thing that differentiates us today from the past is the enormous amount of things we think we must have. Technology is one example. I remember when TV was free. We didn't have a portable phone. There was no internet. All those things are a necessity today and they cost a lot of money. Today we have so many things that we didn't have in the past and we have to pay for them. Living what is expected to be a normal life today is expensive. Sure, our quality of life has improved across the board but it all comes at a price - a very large price.

Kills two birds with one stone - adds population/density while at the same time it addresses the need for affordable housing as the cost of normal housing keeps going up. Not everyone can afford a half a million dollar home.

^ Not sure about that. From the photo looking down l think it fits like a glove. Plus l love having another reason to go down there. It adds diversity, foot traffic and gets rid of those parking lots. Imagine all the different local teams using the facility. It would add life to an already pretty strong area unlike the site on the other side of a highway.

This makes the most sense and, all in all, probably the best move for Cliffs and downtown. We're all still hoping for a US Steel buy so we'll just have to wait and see on that one.

@Dino l don't think it's right to insert a dose of financial reality into my little fantasy world. I prefer to think that every developer/architect will be running their design by me for my imput. I'll be taking their call just as soon as l wake up.

For what it's worth count me in as a huge fan of the design. Of course the magestic height didn't hurt but l also loved the combination of the curving glass coupled with the standard stone. I actually thought the crown was fun, a little whimsical. And the location right on PS was perfect. All l can say now is, "Oh well."

Looking at the cam l was wondering about that too and hoping they were for some more big trees. No such luck.

^ l think another difference between Jerry's World and what we're trying to decide on here (Haslam redux in BP or somthing on our lakefront) is the mindset of Dallas and Cleveland. This is strictly anectdotal but when l visit my family in Arlington they think Jerry's world is great. They love the suburban feel. Love the mall like parking. The local paper's think it's great. When l go to back yard cookouts and l bring it up everyone loves it. It's a car centric suburban culture. Here in Cleveland there is at least some back and forth on BP vs. the lakefront. And of course on this forum we're all pretty much lakefront people but still...it's the difference between an old school city and a new sunbelt city. And that's just one more reason l stayed here and didn't follow the fam. down south.

This whole stadium issue has me so conflicted. The dreamer in me wants a dome on the lakefront connected by a landbridge plus a bunch of residential highrises (some with for sale units), and some kind of park/water access. The realist knows a dome is completely unaffordable and a waste of public money. So a good compromise, for me at least, is a refurbished open air stadium with the other stuff. I can understand Bibb's concerns but turning his back on at least some of the Haslam proposol is short-sighted. By doing so he is turning his back on a billionaire who will be investing hundreds of millions on our lakefront. If Haslam is making that kind of investment l don't have a problem with him adding to his already substantial bottom line. Of course it's a rigged game but there aren't a lot of local billionaires waiting in line behind him. Bibb wants us to use the lakefront. If the city doesn't act here l'm afraid it's going to be another couple of decades before any more lakefront development takes place. This speculation may all be moot though. But unless things change it doesn't sound like the state will be contributing a lot. If that is the case so much for a dome in BP. I think the best solution for all parties is the plan from 2 years ago. An open air stadium along with a landbridge and some residential highrises. Parking and egress will always be a problem but then, how many days is that exactly? Just a few. This seems to be the best compromise. Everyone gets something while keeping the costs at a more reasonable rate.