cadmen

Thanks for the link. I guess that settles it.

Ok, just for the hell of it...does anyone know if the construction will be cement floors or will see steel girders going up? It's no big deal either way, it's just that I like to watch steel rising rather than cement.

Is it really because they're dumb or are their hands tied by the Feds as l've maintained. It's the Feds who are terrorist conscious not Cleveland pols. That being said, I'm not 100% sure but if the Feds are not making the city put up some kind of separation of the road/park why would this lunacy and expense be ongoing? I just can't believe that both Jackson and Bibb came up with the idea to do this for no reason.

So glad he decided not to run for the 47th time. What is the expiration date on an old mayor anyway?

Anything the brings a different kind of activity other than eating and drinking is a welcome addition. The best way to create an active neighborhood is a diversity of activities.

Well of course l also agree with the idea to just get rid of the barriers AND save the bollard money for something else. My position assumes Brian is correct in that there is no Fed mandate to have some kind of separation of the park and road. But if l'm correct that it's the Fed's mandating a separation then cheers to Bibb for finding bollard money.

I like the addition of the screens. A Rock & Roll museum shouldn't be static. It should be kinetic with audio and videos of the performers. It also adds energy to what is too often a quiet entrance to the Hall. It's often the little things that create a positive vibe.

Brian, I'm with you on everything you're saying except I still can't make sense of your barrier explanation. First, my memory about the terrorist explanation was that it came from a PD article and as I recall it was the Feds who were concerned not the city. And even though I thought it was a lame concern I could see the Feds coming up with something like that because if anything I associate terrorism laws with the Feds and not the city. But if your are correct then you are also saying that Bibb is equally concerned about terrorism right? Because if Bibb wasn't concerned he would just remove the barriers and replace them with nothing. But he's not doing that. In fact, he's somehow come up with a not small sum of cash to replace the barriers with bollards. Why go to the expense for no reason? We agree Jackson, in a fit of pique put the barriers in place. Bibb could just remove them and be done with the issue if it was simply a Jackson thing. Unless, as I maintain Bibb is forced to either keep the barriers or replace them with the expensive bollards. What he can't do is replace them with nothing because it's the Feds who are demanding that SOMETHING be put in place to separate the public areas from the roadway. If the barriers were just a Jackson issue he's gone and the barriers could be gone with him. But it's still an issue because it's the Feds and not the city who are demanding the separation. We could resolve this if one of us spent some time researching the history but that seems like too much trouble, at least on my end lol.

Yes!! Way to go Cleveland. Not only do we have the vision and wherewithal to replace a dangerous eyesore with a wonderful urban park but we also have the good sense to replace old bulkheads with green ones. So we get a large park with sweeping vistas. We get a waterway that enables freighters to safely make their way to an important industrial property. And we get another stretch of river that promotes a healthy environment for aquatic life. That my friends is how a smart, progressive city does it. Congrats Cleveland.

Geez, l ignore this site for a few hours and look what l missed. My first thought in reading Ken's article is surprise that this project is happening and happening fast. After losing out on the TMUD credit l figured this project was now a long shot. So this is welcome news. I think it's really going to be a capstone for that important corner and only enhance the coming park. I can see Hingetown construction really taking off now. The future is very bright in that neighborhood. Now the bad news. IMO l'm less than impressed with the redesign. The original was cleaner, crisper. And yes more prominent. This version looks cheaper, more generic although l do like the color around the garage. I doubt we'll see much improvement when it moves through the planning commission. So on the whole it's great that something that is still quite large is actually being built in a fantastic location. And compared to the likelihood that nothing would get built if this wasn't happening l am truly pleased. It's just that l think we get a triple instead of a home run.

I do remember something about having to return the Fed money for the previously built BRT line now that you mention it. I also remember thinking what does one project have to do with the other. But that's our government for you. And yes, Superior is a Federal road so that was their beef regarding closing it through the Square. Thanks for both of your input. At any rate, my original thought was that Jackson did install the barriers temporarily until there was a resolution. It does piss me off that we seem to have an inordinate amount of complications/problems when we want to get something done in Cleveland. I just came back from Phoenix. Somehow in car centric Phoenix they have managed to build a light rail. So have a bunch of other cities across the US but we couldn't figure out how to pay for it down Euclid. Plus, why is it do damn expensive in the first place? You're talking about laying down so tracks in the asphalt. They do it in Europe every day for a fraction of the cost. WTF.

But why? What would be the point? I remember he wanted the Square closed to traffic but the Feds said it needed to be open or they wouldn't contribute money to the project (which was probably a make or break thing). So after it was finished and Jackson couldn't close it AND there was no money for the bollards after the fact he had the jersey barriers put in temporarily until there was a resolution. Since the Feds wouldn't budge we got a stand-off. Until now when Bibb said he would somehow find the cash to finally remove the barriers and put in the bollards. At any rate, that's how l understand the situation.

I don't think Jackson was the one concerned with terrorists. I thought it was the Feds driving it. At any rate l see this whole fiasco as a beurocratic sh*tshow. The whole thing is nothing but lunacy and wasted time and dollars. And besides that, l'm not all that happy with the finished product. Forcing us to keep a road through the Square created a piss poor design. Not to mention those itty bitty fountains are terrible. If your going to put in a water feature put in a water feature. Not that little sprinkler. And budget for the damn landscaping.

Drill baby drill!! Wait a minute. Is an environment loving Democrat allowed to say that?

As hot as Lakewood housing has been in the past few years I am somewhat surprised its taken this long for a new developer to jump on this property but then, there was that little Covid thing to work through. At any rate, I'm happy to read a rather large replacement plan is coming soon. And this one by a firm that appears to have a larger portfolio. Side Note: In a former life I used to work with Dr. Russ Khouri (medical field). I thought he was a savvy businessman and on the side had created a real estate development company virtually out of nothing. I watched his firm (Carnegie) grow and thought he was doing a nice job with one small project after another. But when I read about the scale of the Lakewood project I was a little surprised Carnegie took it on. I was even more surprised when they won the bid only because I thought his firm was much smaller than the other two and I wondered if a smallish firm like his would be able to pull off a project that large. But we'll never know because of that surprise $2 million wrench that was thrown into the works. Pulling out of the project is not a negative stain on Carnegie. I think it was a smart business decision. No mention of that $2 million in surprise clean-up costs that throttled Carnegie's initial plans. I guess the city ate that one.

I'll take it.

Dino, that is an interesting use of color. Not sure l like it but l do appreciate their wild attempts. That sure is thinking outside the box.

The Superior building's blank western wall has been taken up to a significant degree by the Federal Reserve's addition. I did mean the top sections on the northern and eastern sides of the Federal building on East 9th. Those portions were intentionally left unfinished.

Dino, I know the reason 668 has a blank eastern wall is because it butted up to the Hippodrome and I know the current blank wall is not the fault of City Club. In fact it appears the City Club setback from Euclid was a conscious decision on their part as they preferred to have a landscaped pull-in drop off/pickup area. And that is a nice look from straight on but to create that entails keeping part of the blank wall. If they had instead chosen to build out to the 668 building the blank wall would be gone BUT they would also have lost the landscaped drop off/pickup. Either decision involves a trade-off. I get that. I also know blank walls are not just a Cleveland thing. I guess my point was to suggest a modern, better use of those walls where possible. Some aren't too bad but some cry out for something. For me the three worst in Cleveland are the Standard building, the top of the Federal building and the eastern wall of the building on Ontario where the LeBron banner was. Infill would solve that problem while the Standard building is begging for something. I like the idea of a multi-color neon banner. But that's just because I like to see a city light up. Plus it's not my money being spent. Others may hate that idea. As for the Federal building, I doubt anything happens because it's the Feds and apparently they could care less.

^ Thanks for that thorough explanation but now my head hurts.

^ About the only thing I don't like is that blank wall. That is a big fail unless something is in the works. But since City Club doesn't own the 668 building I doubt they have much say. Maybe the 668 people will see this as an opportunity to do something creative (doubt it) with the space. Then again, at some point ownership did add that top piece facing Euclid so maybe something gets done. One of my pet peeves is the numerous blank (unfinished) walls on some of the downtown buildings. The Standard's huge southern wall cries out for something. Done right it actually has the ability to go from eyesore to an attraction. I know there's been some thought to doing something about it but we'll see.

I think this is going to play out over an extended period of time. I don't know what the final number will be but l'll be happy if we get 10,000. 'Course the more the merrier.

Very happy to see the Centennial won the tax credits. Without that help l doubt anything gets done with the building, at least for the foreseeable future. But, as the headline indicated a number of other local projects lost out. Hopefully they get picked up in coming years. At any rate, let's get the party started on the Centennial.

Nice but don't stop there. What does it look like with the parking garage from that angle? I know it's just a garage but with the new height and glass cladding it might not look too bad. Just curious.

Classic good news/bad news story.