cadmen

That bridge still looks clunky to me but in the grand scheme of things it's small potatoes. So much development going on now around town l'm not even thinking about that little piece of crap.

Curious that Marriott's foray into this kind of business is with a company that is also new to the housing game. Let's see how this plays out.

Government moves at a glacial pace.

^ This is the kind of ignorance we have to deal with here. In a lot of ways the Old Timers in this town are to be celebrated. They represent Old Cleveland and are a link to many of the things we love about this town. Unfortunately, a lot of that old thinking is what got us where we are in today. At the very least, that old thinking is holding us back from creating the vibrant city we desire. A funny thing I've noticed about many of these people is they will come back from visiting some place and will talk about how nice it was, how they could walk around these really cool areas with open air bars and cafes, or neat waterfronts with shops and activities. People everywhere just enjoying themselves. Then they have the opportunity to support the creation of something like that here and they say "No." They can't seem to make the connection that the very things they liked about the place they just came back from could also be created here. You don't have to run away to Strongsville to live or drive to Crocker Park to have a semblance of a real old fashioned town with shops on the first floor and apartments above. Why the disconnect? You liked it on vacation but you don't like it here? I don't get it. I've had this discussion with friends and family so many times I've lost count. And the only thing that came out of those discussions is I was never able to change their minds. It was like talking to a brick wall.

So my wife just started a new job teaching Chemistry at CCC Metro campus. She came home the other day and asked me if I knew anything about this interesting old building she drives by on the way to work. I told her it was the old juvenile courthouse. Said it's one of my favorite examples of Old Cleveland but since a new juvenile courthouse was built the old one was on the market with no takers at this point. And to make matters worse, because of it's size and age it's not being maintained well. I told her that without a buyer unfortunately we will probably be reading that its about to be torn down. Well, per Ken's article there is one final push to find a buyer who will save this gem. It won't be easy. This is America after all. If this complex was in Europe there would be no question it would be saved and re-purposed. I for one hope a buyer can be found, someone who can not only make the finances work but also find the right organization to inject life back into it. It's such a grand complex in a relatively prominent location. It would be a shame if it joins all the other examples of lost Cleveland.

At one time I was a fixture on the Kent scene but it has been many, many years since l have been back there. So after reading about the new school of architecture and all the additions to downtown l decided to visit again. This was last summer. Man was l impressed. The college was always a bit removed from downtown which l thought was a fail. Siting the new architecture school on the fringe of campus nearer to downtown helps to merge the two. But the biggest change was all the new additions to downtown. There are so many that l lost my bearings. It's not two street Kent anymore. And all the new buildings fit seamlessly with the old. Why it's almost as if someone knew what they were doing lol. The best design doesn't focus on the individual building but on how ALL the structures (new and old) relate to each other and the street. Kent seems to do that without looking like one of those New Urbanisn towns. Ex. Seaside in Florida. I was impressed and could see myself living there.

^ Wow that IS alot of trees. I have mixed feelings on this. I'm usually pro smart development and Lord knows that part of town could sure use it but, damn, isn't there an abandoned piece of property that could be substituted before all those trees have to go? Yeah, I already know the answer.

Thanks for the link CleveFan. I hope those of us on this forum who care about the outcome of this project will take the time to let NOACA know our concerns. I really have no idea how much the feelings of local citizens will be taken into consideration but it's worth a shot. It may not matter at all if the "jury" has already decided but if there truly is an open discussion and it's close enough then maybe enough pro lakefront, anti traffic flow comments will tip the scales our way.

l just finished reading the Steven Litt article on what to do about the Shoreway/Lakefront in the Sunday PD. The first paragraph starts with a NOACA meeting on what to do. The friggin LAKE COUNTY!! Engineer says he can't support anything that would slow traffic down. No Lakeside diversion. No boulevard. No nothing. Status quo. Litt says the biggest driver (no pun intended) may not even be money but traffic. There are two things wrong here. No. 1 l get that NOACA is a regional organization but how the hell do voices outside the County or City trump the voices of those who live here? How do their interests carry more weight than local interests? And No. 2 if that small area of highway is turned into a boulevard or traffic is diverted to Lakeside so what? We are talking about maybe one mile at best? If it means an additional 10 minutes to get through so friggin what!? If you want to haul ass so bad stay on 90. The plusses of finally connecting downtown to the lake far, far outweigh adding a little driving time. What do the drivers in Chicago do to get across town? They take the highway or take the scenic route along the lake. Two choices and each have their advantages. We can't do that here?? Anyway who has a clue can see the advantages of connecting downtown to the lake. More development, more jobs, increased tax dollars. Not to mention more beauty, more use, more people. More life! Something this town is in desperate need of. And we can't create any of that because some traffic engineers from OUTSIDE the County say it's all about traffic flow. Somewhere Albert Porter is cackling from the grave.

I was afraid the lack of depth at different points from the Atlantic to Lorain would be a problem. And it wasn't just that the western part of Lake Erie is very shallow, it's also the St. Laurence Seaway and locks along the way. Without having specific drafts of the navy vessels and the depths of the entire route, just ballparking the feasibility I was concerned it wouldn't work. Barging smaller vessels might be doable though. Looks like the whole concept is an uphill battle. It's hard to fight geography.

Exactly!

That is a beautiful shot! You know for all my bitchin' about how we're falling behind our peer cities if you ever go to the Pittsburgh, Columbus or Cincinnati forums on different sites you will read comments complaining about the lack of progress in building high rises. Skyscraper site has a before and after picture of different cities skylines. It shows Pittsburgh in the 1980's and now. No difference. One local guy commented that Pittsburgh was stuck in the 80's. Meanwhile, slowly but surely good 'ol Cleveland IS making steady progress one building at a time. Now if we could jumpstart the economy, grow Case Western, identify Cleveland with NASA, establish the city as the prime container port on the Great Lakes with ships lined up to load and unload and...well I see I still have some bitchin' to do. Sorry guys.

Finally! Welp, there's no going back now lol.

Thanks for the article Ken. So the last picture shows the present configuration of the peninsula. There is still about half of it available for development. Without forcing me to dig through all the old posts about this piece of land what's your take on who still owns what? Is Scranton Averell still involved. I remember a Scaravelli group owned much of the land down there and were just sitting on it, rebuffing all inquiries to sell. It looks like a lot of it is still being used for storage or nondescript small industrial buildings. I guess my question is do you know who owns that land and if it's being used for much of anything currently? If nothing much is being done with it then the next round of development should take place there and hopefully be of better quality. 'Course I'm sure with the current plans the price of the remaining land will shoot up. I would think the time to make an offer would be sooner rather later. But it's not my money and I'm not a developer so what do I know?

I'm with LL on this. I thought these renderings were the improved changes. I did not like the original plan and thought these were new and improved. I too missed that they have been "out" there already. So in the grand scheme of things IMO these are better although that IS subjective. Better than before...sure. But daplemmo makes some great points. That is if we are expecting a peninsula to look like an old European neighborhood with little streets, outdoor cafes and pocket parks, well we were never going to get that. And sure if you travel around this country there are plenty of really cool, intimate designs that are brand new. It can be done but maybe those places start with higher standards or more educated users or maybe they just have more money. I've complained on this forum about what I see as poor design in the past. And not just an individual building but also poorly designed developments as they relate to each other. Poor context. A prime example is Wolstein's original design for the Flats East Bank was great. Go back and check them out. Unfortunately what we got is pretty lame although I do like the building with the Flats East Bank sign. The Aloft building is weak and the Kinect building is even worse. On top of poorly designed buildings the biggest mistake was placing them in a parallel fashion whereas the original plan showed a little neighborhood with non-linear streets and buildings set at different angles. You know, like it grew organically instead of a suburban office complex. But hey, in many cases I guess that's what we have to expect here. We have had some success like Intro and others. So it is being done here. But not as often as I want. The most frustrating thing for me is we have a golden opportunity with those peninsulas in the Flats. Nature has given us a unique geographical feature with that curving river and land. If it was developed properly it could be another Cleveland calling card. But I've given up on the best. I'm at the point where I'm happy we ARE getting development that in some cases is great, in most cases ok. Considering how far we have come when we were bottoming out I guess in this town we have to learn to walk before we can run.

First Energy! They have no shame.

IMO if this occurs it could spell the end of Cedar Fair's Sandusky hq. From articles l've read they are already moving some things/people out of Sandusky. Cedar Fair is a great asset for the region. Anything that jeopardizes the Sandusky hq. is not good.

Too bad.

Assuming its present occupants move (big assumption) and there is interest in returning it to its original glory then the next question would be is that a facade attached to the old exterior or was the original exterior destroyed to make this new modernish one? Anybody know the answer?

In our little imaginary urban design world replacing the (very ugly) building on the northwest corner of 13th and Euclid makes perfect sense. Unfortunately if l remember correctly what's inside that building is quite valuable and may be hard to move. Isn't it filled with high tech servers and other internet/computer stuff? Someone younger and more tech savvy than me could enlighten us and explain how difficult (or not) it would be to relocate what's inside and replace that building with something that adds to the street.

Yikes! I'm not sure about that look. I have been wondering when and what replaces the colored block design that is so ubiquitous today. It seems to be time for something else. This thing and Electric Garden's are different but are they better?

With all the focus on the developments happening around town l think we lose sight of what l think is an incredibly valuable building. Tower City. When it first opened l was blown away by the design. It was built on a grand scale with a huge light filled center space. It had great views looking in and looking out. It was connected to RTA, two hotels and office space. Now it's connected to a casino. It has everything a real city has. But as long as urban retail remains challenged Tower City will struggle to find itself. Still, l think the facility has too many working parts to ignore. We can't throw the baby out with the bath water. If downtown continues to grow its population it's only a matter of time before there will be a need for retail. We are sitting on an underutilized, incredible asset. It still has all those connections to other assets. It still has those storefronts. I can't believe we can't figure out a way to merge a growing retail need with a perfect retail space. Tower City is still there. It is still beautiful. It doesn't need to be 1980 again to work. Figure it out. It's too valuable and yes, too necessary to give up on.

For some reason l thought Jack Frost donuts was a chain.

Of course Columbus will get the biggest chunk of any spin-off work. But because this development is so large (projected to be anywhere from two to ten billion) there will be contracts let around the state. So yes, northeast Ohio will get some of that. In a perfect economic world not only will existing firms will get orders but new companies will be created to also fill a need.

Well that's interesting and potentially game changing. Wouldn't Jack Frost donuts be the first non-indepedent to set up shop? If so does that mean the Market will be changing the type of merchants operating there? I'm not sure what to make of this news. It could be the beginning of the end for the Market or the end of the beginning as additional chains take over.