cadmen

Without getting lost in the differences between light rail and streetcar systems can't we just agree that any type of fixed rail line is more appealing than a bus? Personally l prefer a line embedded in the street that allows for both auto and train traffic. It seems easier and cheaper to build. It's been used in Europe for a century at least so we don't have to re-invent the wheel here. If it can be done elsewhere it can be done here. It just takes political leaders and an informed citizenry. Pisses me off that we don't have enough of both.

Keep those boardwalks coming!

Our NASA facility and the Port of Cleveland are two underrated economic entities. For as valuable as they are for some reason they don't seem to garner the type of press or discussion that other high profile organizations do. We talk about the assets our peer cities have that we don't have (state capital, major university etc.) but NASA and the port are two things we have that they don't. Wouldn't it be great if our local business and political leaders placed more emphasis on them and attempted to leverage those assets to increase our economy.

I never post on this site but I just got off the skyscraper page site and read an article about the extension of the Kansas City light rail line. My favorite form of transportation is rail. I remember how hopeful I was when Cleveland was initially looking at building a light rail line along along Euclid from downtown to UC. At some point it was determined that a rail line was too expensive so it was replaced with a bus line. WTF! In the meantime other cities HAVE built light rail like Cincinnati and KC. If they could pull it off why couldn't we? Was it lack of political will? I know its very expensive to build in Cleveland but come on!

^ I took several grad classes in CSU's Urban Affair's department (didn't finish because I saw it as more of a hobby than a career) but I know there is an abundance of books on best practices of urban development. The thing is, in the real world all that theory gets muddled up with competing interests. Even the best project is not built in a vacuum. And because developments happen over time the whole (city) is never a finished product. You do the best that you can all the while knowing you're going to end up with a camel rather than a horse (if you get my reference).

LlamaLawyer I'm not an expert on what elements make for ideal economic development other than the obvious ones. Those being access to a large university (which provides a steady stream of young/cheap graduates to fill the jobs created), local and state dollars, aggressive leadership in pursuing projects and of course lots of cheap, virgin land. But as to your concern about development potentially ruining Northeast Ohio... well let's just say that's not going to happen because we are not on anybody's radar as yet. Our number one asset is an abundance of clean fresh water and I don't see that being a gamechanger for at least another couple of decades. Make no mistake though. At some point that will be an incredibly valuable asset - its just that we're not there in 2022. So no need to worry about the problems that come with prosperity/growth.

That's a long time for us development nerds but then again the timeline does dovetail nicely with the finishing of City Club and SHW. Nothing like continuous construction to quiet the herd.

Ohhhh. I didn't realize that was the Ingenuity location. I've been there a few times. It IS a pretty cool place if you're going for abandoned industrial chic.

Either this means every other possible location is already booked (great news!) or we forgot how to put on a party. Wonder which one it is?

Absolutely LlamaLawyer. Getting one of those quantum computers was a coup for Cleveland. For the moment we're ahead of the competition. Our research institutions should leverage it to bring in additional research dollars as well induce tech companies to open an office here. It may be a long shot because we still don't have a critical mass of people with the right skills but access to that computer needs to be exploited.

So much positivity! Two major developments in the same area in the works by deep-pocketed developers. That is something. I don't know which one excites me more. Maybe the ballpark village. Year round entertainment plus a residential highrise will certainly enliven that area. But adding another tower which includes office space for Rocket Mortgage expansion is great too because downtown needs to be more than a government/entertainment/residential district. It must include office jobs. And if the proposed building includes space for Benesch AND a boutique hotel, well that ensures it will be a signifcant building. Maybe the best news is that both projects have the backing of individuals with outstanding resources. Stark had big dreams but his dreams were larger than his wallet. These developers are on a different level. It will be fun to watch this play out.

The topic of energy waste is complicated. Count me a tree hugging Democrat but life is more complex than simple labels. I'm a proponent of electric vehicles but in order to power the batteries we must mine the earth often in fragile rainforests. So on one hand we're trying to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels but we're destroying part of the ecosystem to do it. That's a complicated situation. I want to see wind farms in Lake Erie but if built they will kill migrating birds. I love to see the skyline lit up but those lights kill hundreds of thousands of birds every year across the country. Light pollution disrupts animal life worldwide. Noise pollution in the oceans disorient fish. What are the answers to those problems? What ever they are they will be complicated and lead to losses somehow in some way. When it comes to energy powering modern societies there is no free lunch. Active cities, full of life are wasteful and polluting things. Economic activity across the board is wasteful. But lack of economic activity is also harmful. If you follow the problems with the supply chain one thing is glaring. My god does the modern world create stuff that often is very quickly disposed of in landfills or the oceans or ends up polluting the atmosphere. How to limit waste without limiting economic activity is a question l can't answer but one way or another our kids and grandkids will have to. So yeah, back on topic, l want to see our bridges lit up. Is the environmental cost worth it? I don't know but it is a debate well intentioned people need to have.

That's what l've been talking about. Light the damn bridges! It can't be that hard or expensive with today's lighting technology. C'mon Mayor Bibb. I know you have a lot on your plate and you're just getting started but you can delegate this to someone. It just needs a champion to drive it. You know, someone besides me who actually has some power to make things happen.

In case you don't know there is a cool site on Wikipedia that shows every building from tallest on down for most American cities. At the bottom of each list it also a list of buildings either proposed or under construction. SHW is listed as under construction on the site. Google "building's tall" and you should find it. It's a fun site and helps to put different cities skyline lined into comparison/contrast.

Well Ken here's hoping your 2 sources are correct and Ezra Stark is just trying to deflect. I would rather take my chances with another developer than Stark. Nothing against the firm, l just don't think they are in the position to pull the trigger on anything large enough to do justice to the site/location. Besides, based on info up-topic Stark seems more interested in developing outside Cleveland at this time. So rather than see the site remain a parking lot for another 10 years I'd rather take my chances with a yet to be named developer (real or imagined if you believe Ezra Stark).

I absolutely love the idea of water taxi's making multiple stops along the riverfront and lake but it will take at least a decade and probably more to develop the density required to make those stops viable. It could happen though and wouldn't that be something? If any of you have taken the Baltimore water taxi's you know what a great way to explore the area they are. What makes them work is either existing neighborhoods (Fell's Point) or newer development all along the harbor. In other words - density. We have the makings of interesting stops if developed properly but that's still a long way off. I've always thought that to make a place stand out it has to capitalize on what makes it distinctive. We have a lake AND a remarkably curving river that demand attention. We need to exploit those assets. Through in lighted bridges and we create a real draw. One that could pump significant money into the city in the form of visitors, new businesses and new residents. Downtown is coming along and University Circle is a real gem but doing the lake and river right would be a real calling card. It could put us on the map nationally and help to change our image from downtrodden to a destination.

I didn't like the original design at first either but for some reason it grew on me and now l like it, especially the cross piece. Too bad it didn't happen.

What's the point of these carjackings anyway? Seems like all they do is a little joy riding and then ditch the car. I guess l don't understand the criminal mind.

Of course reading that Stark is selling this land is welcome news but even more encouraging to me is the speed in which not only did Stark decide to sell but how quickly he was able to find a buyer at a high price. That bodes well for hopefully a large development going up and soon to boot. We are not used to things getting done that fast in this market. Based on how painstaking it is to put together land and tenants for anything on a large scale this is lightening fast. Now on to speculation. Purely as an interested observer I would prefer for a large mixed use tower as finding office tenants alone in our market is difficult at best. In addition while residential seems to be the greatest need once the old SHW property comes on board it's most likely going to be converted to housing. That's a lot of housing and if you include the Centennial that's even more so mixed use seems to be the best bet for a high rise. Another thing in its favor is its location. As much as SHW should kick-start ancillary development in the Warehouse District I think this property is even more valuable as it connects East 4th St. and Gateway. Filling that hole with a large development benefits all three (the whole would be greater than its parts). Can't wait to see what's coming and how tall it will be lol.

Sorry, l meant downtown shopping is good the environment vs. driving to the mall.

Jesus Christ. Either l'm out of touch or there are way too many delusional people out there. First off, thank you for your thorough and informative article Ken. That piece is exactly the reason why this forum is my go to for all things development. Secondly, for those who don't get the "fascination" with a city Target or those whose first reaction to the possibility of downtown shopping is a knee jerk fear of crime...well l posit that the more office, government, residential, entertainment and yes, shopping the more healthy and vibrant you are. Shopping is a sign of life. It adds foot traffic to our sidewalks. It adds convenience to residents. It's good for the environment. I know l'm preaching to the choir to most of you but l guess l'm just frustrated by the ignorance and negativity out there. I stopped reading Facebook awhile ago along with some other sites because of the vitriol. This forum still has sane posters and for that l am thankful.

Agreed and that was kinda my point about Cleveland.com which l realize is an internet offering while being an offshoot of the PD which is itself a shrinking entity.

Cleveland.com is rapidly on its way to becoming a supermarket tabloid. It would be embarrassing except for the fact that most of the grand old newspapers are but a shadow of themselves. But then, its not so much their fault but that the market changed around them - viewers and advertisers left in droves for the internet. They were forced to gut journalists and reporters. What are they to do other than put out one or two local pieces along with mostly syndicated pablum.

Don't know about any back office space there but l did know several lawyers who had individual or small shared offices in the building.

Wouldn't it be fun and more interesting if all those numbers streets in Cleveland went back to their old names ie 25th st. back to Pearl etc.