cadmen

Well I'm all things CLE but...man, Miami is so beautiful.

That is a picture of a piece of art that was supposed to be part of a more numerous landscape of art/sculptures when Gateway was built. There were plans for several more but the funding never materialized so we ended up with just a few pieces of which that is one.

Don't like losing two more of our old warehouse buildings but if this development comes to fruition what we gain will outweigh the loss. More concerning is the last bit about the new jail and courthouse location. I'm fine with moving the jail but I want to keep a new courthouse downtown. The problem is both make to much logistical sense together rather than separated. And if the jail is built outside of downtown then the courthouse has to follow. That sucks. Maybe they can be built somewhere north and east of CSU but still relatively close to downtown. I'm sure kjp has his eye on the prize and will let us all know before the PD will.

Htsguy l was being sarcastic. Of course the primary purpose of this site is to present new info on development as well as a forum for people to give their 2 cents. It's bjk who doesn't seem to understand that because while the rest of us were speculating on the potential design he stated our opinions don't matter because SHW will want a design that works for it and not us. Which is obviously true but not the point of the forum.

Well that's it people. Stop with the idle dreaming and speculation. SHW is going to do what is best for SHW and it doesn't matter what we think. Who knew? Apparently only bjk.

Yes sir!! When that design first appeared l thought what an amazing add-on. Too bad nothing came of it. Imagine driving north on Ontario, past the baseball stadium and seeing that beautiful welcome to Cleveland image. Le sigh for sure at what could have been.

Larger floorplates = bulkier but shorter building and smaller floorplate = taller but more slender building. So what do we prefer? Hmmm...

The Ellipse has been one of my favorite Cleveland buildings as well. Interesting architecture, good location and great views. Very inexpensive to locate there vs. building new. Seems like a perfect match for Cliffs. One thing that always struck me as odd is the problem with leasing because of its large floor plates. Seems to me there are many expanding firms in the region who could take up an entire floor or two on their own. Having employees on one large floor rather than several smaller floors would be more efficient. Less time waiting for the elevator, etc. I have read that one reason why some companies relocate from a downtown area (aside from the obvious free parking in an attached lot) to the 'burbs is they prefer to have their employees all on one sprawling floor rather than spread out on several floors. If that logic applies in the suburbs then why wouldn't it apply to a downtown building with larger floorplates? It should be an asset not a liability? Obviously larger floorplates ARE a problem, otherwise it would have been leased by now but I don't get it.

^ Well that guy is an idiot lol. But yeah, how one does in life is a combination of internal and external factors. I once spent a lousy 2 nights in my car homeless. That put the fear of god in me and I'm an atheist. I started college at 21 and between working and going to school at nights/weekends I spent the better part of 20 years getting an advanced degree. Good for me but a lot of people aren't able to overcome external issues. You mentioned automation not off-shoring as the main reason for job loss and that may be true for the past 30 years or so but starting with Reagan there was a calculated assault on unions. Companies moved south to escape union demands. Of course unions bear some responsibility for onerous work rules but still... But that wasn't enough. Companies demanded more and more concessions. Many just continued south to Mexico. Then China, leaving whole towns and industries devastated. I remember when America was filled with family businesses some of which grew to employ thousands and they were headquartered in the town where they were founded. They were a community anchor. But times change. After a few generations many of those company's were no longer run by the family. A larger company from outside bought up the business and in many cases moved it lock stock and barrel leaving behind a wounded town and workforce. Or remember in the 80's and 90's when corporate raiders swooped in, bought up a business, sold off what was profitable and simply closed down the rest. Again leaving towns and the local workforce to suffer. It's all legal cowboy capitalism but is it right? Look, capitalism is the greatest generator of wealth but it needs regulation otherwise we're living in a lord of the flies world. We see the damage wealth inequality creates. All of this is complicated, full of competing interests as well as human failure. We see what happens to people and communities when nothing matters more than the bottom line. That's why I say we need a national dialogue with all parties involved. Otherwise we'll just continue down the same road to the end of the American dream.

Then why are millions of males without the right skills or education not getting off their butts and doing that? I'm one of those people who would have been left behind if I had stayed in my lane. Something inside propelled me to rise above my working class roots and I did graduate from college (first in my family and still the first) and retired from a relatively high position. But as I look around Cleveland, as I travel the US I see hundreds of cities large and small devastated by globalization . I see small towns emptying out because those left behind in the knowledge economy haven't figured out that just getting the type of training you suggest would be a life saver - for some of them. But that doesn't account for the millions who can't or won't do that. And so they become casualties to one of the great economic shifts in the last 60 some years. You're a smart guy Ken (I'm one of your silent fans on here) but you know it's not as simple as you say for an unfortunate massive chunk of the work force. Oh it used to be easy to find a good paying middle class job. At one time most Americans lived within a mile or two of one. Now, it's much harder and the path is far less clear. But one path is unfortunately clear for millions of males. Don't want to work in health care or even a skilled trade so where does that lead? Poverty, despair, confusion, substance abuse, crime and maybe death. Millions fall into that category today. Just look around you. Trump (snake oil salesman) called it American carnage. It's one of the few things he was right about. 'Course he had no answers but that doesn't make the claim less true. I'm not about doom and gloom but I am saying we have been living in a great economic shift and like major shifts in the past (farm to factory, factory to knowledge economy) there are casualties. I am saying we need to do more than document the shift. We need to figure out what to do with all those who have been left behind. They're Americans too.

I think the drop is primarily due to the loss of good paying jobs in manufacturing. Used to be a male could make a decent living with a high school degree or less. Corporate greed and globalization ended that along with those jobs. Now we have a separation where a relatively smaller number of the male workforce is employed in knowledge jobs. This leaves those without the skills/education two choices. Either fill the smaller number of good paying jobs that don't require skills/education or drop out into a world of low paying service jobs or worse, govermental dependence,depression,drug/alcohol abuse or suicide. Not a pretty picture. As a society we can't continue on this road. I think we need a national dialogue about where we are, how we got here and what are some possible solutions. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting you have one in the first place. That includes all the flag wavers who won't admit that much of America has driven into a ditch.

Long way off of course and who knows what the final look will be but whatever development happens I hope that exterior lighting is included. It makes the building look warm and rich.

Ken, I'm trying to figure out what is an example of spin-off development. Hotel? Sure but we don't need another hotel and other than that what is an example of spin-off development vs. regular development?

Man Dexter is one sharp looking project.

The ONLY problem I have with the project is that it is not flush with the front of the 668 building. I guess the architect preferred a cut out on Euclid for drop-offs/pick-ups and maybe some extensive streetscaping and that is a plus but still, I think it would have fit that stretch of Euclid better if there was a more uniform depth building by building.

Here's a little story about that empty lot. One winter night back in the mid-60's I was sleeping over at a friends place. He lived in that big white house on the northeast corner of that same intersection. After an evening of playing board games we went to bed and slept through the night. The next morning I happened to look out the window and saw a wondrous sight. The huge house that stood where that empty lot is now was a giant ice sculpture. There must have been a big fire and by the time it was put out the whole place was a giant piece of frozen art. The funny thing to me was not one person in my friends house was woken up by what must have been a very loud night of fire fighting. And that lot has been empty ever since. At any rate, those were the days of peaceful sleeping - now I wake up every hour to pee. Ah youth...

Hate the stripes. They look like they are glued on after-the-fact. When the light is right they stick out like a sore thumb. The above photo shows them in a more subdued light so not as bad a look as bright light. Even though l prefer all glass towers l agree a skyline full of them would be too much. No worries of that happening here lol.

We're in a time now where rules and standards are...just not. I'm afraid it's going to get MUCH worse in a few months when we see votes don't count anymore.

Yes, I would take that in a heartbeat. Even with the stripes lol.

All hail King car! Albert Porter would have loved that plan.

That's what l thought. Must have misunderstood what the mention of the Spaces building was all about.

Wait,what? Based on the pics of the building coming down for the new Viaduct tower I was under the impression it was a nondescript industrial building and not the old Spaces building which is a very nice old structure. So are there two buildings or one and if two is the old Spaces building one of them? Like everyone else on this site I too love the design of the new tower. It would be a shame if the Spaces building has to come down in order to build the new tower but in this case the new tower would trump (no pun intended) the existing building(s).

Doesn't even need a stamp to mail back.

I completed the paper form. Coincidentally l also completed my 90 year old mother's paper form her today.

C'mon man. NEO wake up!! Filled mine out months ago. It's not hard!