cadmen

This whole conversation comes down to one thing; do we want to play the Game of Favor or not? Society favors the wealthy, the athletic, the beautiful. Always has. In our particular little corner of the Game we are talking public subsidies to renovate the Q. One side says it's not fair to give billionaires breaks and they are absolutely correct. Public money is better spent elsewhere when arenas can cost up to a billion dollars. The price of tickets, food, and parking can be ridiculous and athletes/entertainers make crazy salaries. The other side says, fair or not that's simply the price of admission to the Game of Favor. And after all, they didn't make the rules so what can they do? Of course there is the occasional exception so for the most part you can't change the Game, but you can choose to opt out. Individuals can choose principle and opt out by not buying tickets. Cities can also choose to opt out by not building arenas/stadiums. We have a choice. Just remember one thing, if an individual chooses to opt out they won't see the event but if a city opts out at some point the event won't be available to see. Choose wisely. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. If you want to play you have to pay.

One can only hope KJP.

So the vote was postponed. Fitting, I guess. Probably would have been voted down anyway and those on this board who chose principle over reality would have their day. Still, I'm disappointed. Stark is simply a developer with big ideas and little pockets. Not much more to say about nuCLEus but those wanting to continue the discussion can meet down at the site - there should be plenty of parking (he said snarkly). As for me, I'll continue to pine for other developments. I want more and bigger buildings. I want a real skyline, more people living downtown, more people WORKING downtown, thriving retail and better lake access and blue skies and trees that live longer than 2 years and wind turbines on Lake Erie that don't kill birds and funding to MAINTAIN projects that do get built (I'm looking at you Public Square) and people moving here, not leaving. I want to be known as the Water Belt and not the Rust Belt, I want my hair to grow back and, and......ah jeez...we are getting 515 Beacon, right??

This is a complete and utter fallacy and I disagree wholeheartedly. Reads like propaganda from a 4 post poster, just like the previous 2 post posters disagreement. Excuse me if I'm a little skeptical on the coincidence of the low post count and Nucleus advocacy. I can't speak for the other guy but I've been reading this site for years and tried posting a few times and had a very hard time doing it. I changed my sign-in and still have a hard time. I'm 65 and have trouble with technology. Sorry. but that doesn't make my position wrong or worse, part of some conspiracy you dreamed up. I consider myself a card carrying liberal who is decidedly NOT a fan of corporations. But with the state of development in this town a developer needs all the help he can get. Side Note: I recently took Amtrack from Dallas to San Antonio passing right through downtown Austin. I counted 9 construction cranes in the downtown core alone. And here we are pissing about trying to one lousy site going. Our growth is pathetic. I'm not saying construction cranes are the only barometer of economic growth but still....

What?? Not sure I understand your point but the bottom line is the project will NOT get built without creative financing. You do understand that, right? So the school system would get some 18 million now plus, hopefully, the additional millions from the state for school construction. All that vs. the much, MUCH, smaller amount they currently receive in the form of property tax on the parking lot. Say what you will about developers getting rich off the backs of the people but let's be dispassionate about this particular project and admit that everyone benefits. CLE gets a shiny new skyscraper, there's one less eyesore parking lot downtown and the schools get WAY more money than they would if nothing is done. It's a no-brainer. 'Course in this town what did that ever have to do with anything? We have been making more wrong choices than right ones for decades.

Those white panels look HORRIBLE. They cheapen the original design which, albeit somewhat derivative, is still a modern take adopted by more progressive cities. The new Hilton is our first really modern building and a welcome break from the monotony of Cleveland beige. The PS tower was a chance to continue that progressive design. Not with these changes. The white stripes remind me of some of those generic '60's/70's towers built in other nondescript mid-western towns like Des Moines and Omaha. My only question is were the changes prompted by the Review Committee or did the architects add them before any input by the committee? While we can dispute the garage issue the tower itself wasn't broke - no need to fix it.