edale

^ lol toxic masculinity isn’t a new term by any stretch. It’s not something invented out of thin air on twitter, nor is it symptomatic of PC culture run amok. Queer communities have been talking about it for quite a while, because many gay men suffered mightily in their childhoods because of it. Just because you don’t like the how it sounds, or you misunderstand what it means doesn’t mean the concept is invalid.

Yeah, neighborhood/community councils are obnoxious NIMBY collectives everywhere. As far as this appeal goes, though, that is pretty common in historic preservation. I worked for a bit in preservation for the city of LA, and I dealt with many appeals for infill projects or additions to homes. If the historic review staff wrote their findings well, and can support the basis for the approval, this project shouldn't have any problems. The community council that the project is in supports the project, and appeals are really supposed to look at the merits of the project and how it conforms to the preservation guidelines or secretary's standards. The fact that the OTR CC doesn't feel included enough in the process shouldn't be enough to win an appeal. Now, if they can uncover some sort of technicality, like a mandatory noticing requirement that wasn't followed, that could spell trouble. But based on what I've read about this project and its appeal, I think it should go forward.

I've always understood the concept, so I guess I don't see the terminology as problematic, though I can see where some people might find it confusing. I just thought of this comparison, and while it might not be perfect, it's the best thing I can think of at the moment. Surely people have heard of "white trash", right? That term isn't implying that all white people are trash, but it's used as a descriptor for poor, uncouth white people. Now, given the economic implications of white trash, I'd say this term is a bit more problematic than toxic masculinity, but it gets at the same tension, I think.

I went to an urban putt putt golf course in San Francisco this past weekend. Seems like something like that would be a good fit for the windowless portion of the base. The problem is, there are plenty of individual users that could take some of this space, but it's very hard to think of a single tenant, or multiple smaller tenants, who could fill the whole thing. BTW, does anyone have floor plans for these bricked up floors? Are the floors largely wide open since it was formerly a department store, or are the spaces broken up into smaller rooms?

^ I think you're missing the point. Men exhibiting bad behavior does not equal toxic masculinity. I agree that it is wrong to attach the bad actions of one person with a whole group of people. The point of toxic masculinity is that toxic ideas have permeated the definition of what it means to be masculine, and that shouldn't happen. Being masculine should not also mean being emotionally stunted. Violence and treating women poorly should not be synonymous with masculinity, either. When being manly in this society can easily be conflated with being a shitty person, there's a problem with the way we are defining masculinity. Do you see the distinction now?

I encourage any and all courtesy flushes. The less smells and sounds I have to encounter in the bathroom at work, the better and happier my life will be. I'm all about environmental conservation, but when it comes to public toilets, I say a little wasted water is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

When you have the President on tape bragging about how he "grabs women by the pussy", and the general population largely let him get away with it because it could be explained away as normal 'locker room talk', you know there is a problem with toxic masculinity in this country. I don't know why the term is so upsetting to some men. How many of us (men) have felt compelled to change aspects about ourselves to better fit in with other men? As a boy, I was constantly told not to cry, not to be too emotionally expressive, not to like certain colors or play with certain toys. In high school and college, men are often taught to treat women as objects and that sex is a feat of conquest rather than an act of love (or just fun). Even as an adult, there is a ton of pressure regarding what is socially acceptable male behavior, and it takes a strong personality, or someone who just doesn't give a f*** what people think of him to reject these pressures and live as he chooses. This is what I understand toxic masculinity to mean. And these things have very real consequences. We have a bunch of men in this country who are unable to express themselves in healthy ways, who lash out due to deeply repressed insecurities, and who hurt others because they were taught that's how they should act as a man. It's toxic behavior, yes, but it's toxic behavior of men, so I see no problem calling it toxic masculinity. The term doesn't mean that masculinity is toxic, just that there is a subsect of masculine identity that is harmful.

This is totally off topic, but I was poking around OTR on Google Maps to see what buildings on 15th you all were talking about, and it occurred to me that OTR has a really wonky and fragmented grid. 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th all zig and zag multiple times from Central Parkway to Sycamore. There are also a bunch of small east/west streets that are only a block long, like Mercer, Orchard, Woodward, and of course the numbered streets totally stop north of Liberty. Why is this? You would think that a historic neighborhood like OTR would adhere pretty strictly to the grid, like much of Downtown, but it definitely does not.

Those types of chains are struggling all over the country. The Margaritaville in the Cincinnati casino was tragic, and thankfully closed a year or so ago. Oddly enough, I remember eating at Alice Cooper's restaurant the first time my family visited Cleveland as a kid, and I thought it was awesome. This was in the late 90s or early 2000s, though, so prime years for those themed, celebrity driven mega restaurants.

Thanks for the tour. There is some great architecture in Youngstown. It's sad seeing so much of the historic stock sitting vacant and in bad condition. I suppose this isn't unique to Youngstown, but it seems like the prospects for revitalization are considerably dimmer there than in other parts of the state. Has there been any real dent made in the economic depression of the Mahoning Valley? I know GM just announced a major closure there. Seems like the region just can't catch a break.

Can't wait til a weed dispensary or grow site eventually opens somewhere in the basin so we can have a total cacophony of polarizing smells swirling around OTR and the West End.

I enjoyed Terry's Turf Club, and they did make an excellent burger. I wasn't a huge fan of the whole experience, though. You often had to wait, and the service was usually kind of rushed and rude, and they bring the food out on paper plates. I'm not a snob, but if I'm paying a pretty steep price for a burger and fries, I don't want to eat off a paper plate. Their toppings and sauces were legit, and the burgers were thick and large. A good option on the East Side, but I agree it's a bit over hyped.

Yeah, they opened a Starbucks Reserve right around the corner from my place and it's pretty obnoxious. The baristas all have to wear those ridiculous hats, and they try to upsell every order to 'reserve', which is considerably more expensive and tastes about the same. It's pretentious and cold, and not at all the type of vibe I'm looking for from a coffee shop. But it's always packed from opening to close, so perhaps I'm not their target customer. Thankfully, there are plenty of other, better options in the neighborhood, including Blue Bottle which is expensive but really delicious and more low key.

Yeah, I was impressed with the CBD, too. But I didn't notice much in the way of chain retail. Canal Street had a few stores, but not too much. I did see plenty of bars, restaurants, and hotels, though.

Newport, Rhode Island comes to mind, but it's also right on the coast. Not in the USA, but Quebec City is another northern city that people visit primarily for the architecture. I'd argue that a lot of people visit Boston, NYC, and Philly based on their historic architecture, too, but those cities are all large enough to have multiple things that would interest tourists. Charleston and Savannah are interesting almost exclusively because of their architecture and cultural history. I spent a rainy day in Charleston a few years ago, and trying to find a museum to spend a few hours in was impossible. Savannah at least has SCAD and its great museum.

I quoted and was responding to @jam40jeff Your Smashmouth anecdote was not interesting to me. Who cares about the music some suburban parents are listening to at a micro brewery in Blue Ash...?

lol well yeah, there you go.

Let's be honest here, Chicago people are little better. They feel scorned and shut out of the cool East/West Coast club, so they look down on the rest of the midwest as being seriously less than. New Yorkers absolutely can be obnoxious and condescending to people not from there. Look at any article from the NYT about LA, and you'll see this condescension is not limited to the Midwest or small/medium size cities. Many of them truly think NYC is the center of the world, and anything outside of it is trash. But I think Chicago is even worse in this regard, because it's full of people from all over the Midwest who now think they are superior because they live in an urban neighborhood and go to Soul Cycle. Chicagoans have always seemed extremely insecure about their city, imo. Like they need to feel constantly validated that they live in a cool place and even though it's in the heart of the midwest, you know it's not really the midwest...that type of thing.

Uh, what? What suburbs are you talking about? The diverse northern burbs (with Ohio's most diverse city, Springdale), the monied eastern burbs of Kenwood, Indian Hill, Mariemont, Montgomery, the new money northeast exurbs like Mason, the affordable and somewhat struggling inner suburbs like Silverton and Cheviot?

Why would those type of places open in Downtown instead of Kenwood? If you work for Uniqlo or Zara (both of which have no stores in the Cincy market) would you open Downtown or in Kenwood? Even the city you want to emulate, New Orleans, doesn’t have much in the way of chain retail downtown.

Um, not to disparage any of these cities, but I don't think these are the downtowns we should be emulating, save for mayyyybe Pittsburgh or I suppose Nashville (ugh). I get what you're saying about the ability for retail to succeed in mid-sized cities' downtowns, but there are several cities about our size or a bit larger that have a better downtown retail scene than Cincinnati. Portland, San Diego, Denver, Minneapolis, hell, even Indianapolis all have pretty lively retail districts downtown. I don't know if Cincy will ever get department stores to open again downtown, as that business model is generally hurting now, but there is no reason downtown couldn't support more retail, generally. The various boutiques that have opened in OTR have been a great retail addition to the city, but I think the CBD could definitely support some larger format chains, too. Places like Ross or Marshalls or something would probably do very well Downtown.

Ok, but isn't much of this disconnect from the basin stem from geographical separation/isolation? Hyde Park, while in the city limits, is really more of a streetcar suburban type of neighborhood, so it wouldn't make sense for it to have been developed like CUF or any of the more classically urban neighborhoods. Really the 'core' of Cincinnati is the basin + Camp Washington and Northside + Mt. Adams and Mt. Auburn (and the NKY river cities, I would argue). The vernacular in those neighborhoods is pretty dense, small footprint lots, fine grained development. Outside of these areas, development patterns are much more in line with other cities in Ohio and the eastern Midwest. 4 family small apartment buildings, detached homes with sizable yards and setbacks, some larger, more intense apartment buildings (like those found on Madison in Hyde Park and off Ludlow in Clifton). It's only the true core that somewhat borrows from East Coast patterns, I think.

I experience this type of situation all the time in California. People seem to love talking shit about the Midwest, even if it's clear they have never been, or have no idea what they're talking about. Transplants are indeed some of the worst offenders. There is a woman I work with who is originally from Ohio, and when she was introducing herself (to the whole department) she said "I'm from Ohio, which is an alright place to grow up, but a TERRIBLE place to live now...wouldn't ever go back!". Of course everyone laughed, and my coworkers who knew I'm from Ohio all looked at me to see my expression I guess. I think it's a bad look to talk shit about the place you're from. Almost like the mentality of 'keep family stuff in the family' I guess. I'll complain and bitch about parts of Ohio to other people from there, but to outsiders I try to be pretty complementary or at least silent, because there's no need to pile on or reinforce this phony national narrative. The one good thing about LA, though, is that loads of people here also talk about how shitty it is, which I guess is pretty different than what happens in the Nashville/Austin/Denvers of the world. Locals and transplants alike often remark on the traffic, how much of the city is ugly, the air quality, the homeless- really anything. It's kind of endearing, I think. Like yeah much of it's shitty, but there's also a fair amount of cool stuff and the weather is usually pretty great, so...eh, it's an alright place to live. I wouldn't be able to take incessant cheerleading or boosterism from the city I live in.

slowest. project. ever.

If only we had, like, a streetcar people could take from other parts of the basin to their jobs in OTR.