edale

Yeah, for all the discussion of tourism, it really is chump change compared to the rest of the economy. I’d much rather have Cincinnati’s economy with 9 F500 companies than New Orleans, which only has 1.

Touché.

Rakes was the coolest scene in the city. Arts on the Ave sounds like a weekend arts festival in Maysville or something. Good god. They'd be better off just calling it Art Bar or something, if they insist on using art in the name. Super lame.

I always assumed this stemmed from the P&G influence of creating 'brands' over products. Several of these restaurant guys got their start at P&G, so they see brand expansion as a natural next step, after the initial proof of concept has proved successful. I know Jean Francois and the Macaron Bar guys got are ex-P&Gers, but not so sure about the others. I don't have a problem with these restaurants expanding to other markets, but I wish they would advertise their Cincinnati roots more. Or at least do things to make the OTR locations feel like the original/flagship spots. It'd be a cool selling point if people in Cleveland, Columbus, Indy, etc. knew that Bakersfield (for example) was a Cincy product.

If you believe in markets, Cincinnati needs all the hotel rooms it can get. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/10/cincinnati-named-most-expensive-destination-in.html. The demand is clearly there. If more supply isn't being created, we have to wonder why........ More supply IS being created. In the past couple years, there have been several new hotels built downtown. 21C, Residence Inn at Lytle Park, AC Hotel at the Banks, Hampton Inn on Vine, Holiday Inn on Broadway, Renaissance on 4th. Additionally, there is the Anna Louise Inn property that is in the process of becoming an upscale Marriott Autograph Collection hotel, and there are plans for a Kimpton at 5th and Walnut, and a Town Place Suites on 7th St. 6 new hotels, and 3 either in development or pre-development. There could be more, but this is just what came to mind. Of course Newport has also seen a couple new hotels open near the riverfront in recent years, and new hotels have been built in CUF, Evanston, Norwood (Rookwood Exchange), Corryville... Ever think the real issue is that you're blinded by your personal biases? Also, here are some facts to chew on: 2016 visitors to Cincinnati: 26.1 million -- 2% growth from previous year (https://cincinnatiusa.com/tourism-counts-5-billion-industry) 2016 visitors to Cleveland: 18 million -- 2.8% growth from previous year (https://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/10/greater_cleveland_attracted_18.html) 2016 visitors to Columbus: 39.3 million -- 1.5% growth from previous year (https://www.experiencecolumbus.com/articles/post/columbus-visitors-spend-64-billion-in-local-economy/) While Cincinnati receives less visitors than Columbus (and the central location and state capital making it a favorable location for in-state conventions has been covered upthread), it receives more than Cleveland. Is that because Clevelanders despise tourism and visitors even more than those sinister Cincinnatians?

^ Yes, government is different than 'the people'. Cincinnati city government has been trying for years to get the Millennium Hotel to perform renovations and upgrades. As an 800+ room hotel adjacent and connected to the convention center, it is the convention center hotel. We don't NEED a new hotel, if the one we had would simply be better. But in spite of the efforts of the city to get the Millennium to cooperate, nothing has been done to make it a more attractive hotel. Now we see 3CDC partnering with the Port Authority or whatever they're called now to build a new hotel across from the convention center, essentially telling the Millennium to kick rocks. That's why Matthew's posts are so weird. If the city had been doing nothing on this front, perhaps he might have a shred of a point. The city has expanded the convention center, and is actively working on a new convention hotel, but according to his posts, 'Cincinnatians' don't want new hotels or tourism, and that is the sole reason the city isn't a convention and tourist magnet. It's ludicrous. The average citizen in Cleveland or Columbus had absolutely nothing to do with whatever new hotels were built in those cities.

Oh, this again ::) We all know how you feel. Do you have any basis for these statements? Why do we have a convention and visitors bureau if this is the case? I hesitate even engaging with you, because I know you'll just respond with more drivel about elites and other nonsense, but if you have a link, or really anything beyond your own opinions on this, perhaps you could share them. I totally agree with Matthew on this point. Many long-time Cincinnati residents don't want growth. They don't want tourists. They don't want change. They don't want competition for cheap on-street parking spaces near the Reds stadium. taestell[/member] since you validated Matthew and agree with what he posts, maybe you could clarify.

What the hell does this mean? I wasn't aware that new hotels came about via public referendums. If you're going to keep making these claims, try to provide a shred of evidence or support. Did Cleveland's new convention center adjacent Hilton hotel get built because the people of Cleveland willed it into existence? Should Cincinnatians take to the streets to demand Marriott build a hotel downtown? Surely you know that's not how business decisions like that happen. If you don't, you have no business posting on a forum like this. You make absolutely zero sense when you make these claims. Cincinnati is a region of 2+ million people. You're saying that this group is a monolith that all thinks the same, and has collectively decided to shun tourism? All you do is spout nonsense-- I'd take the out that Jake gave you and just admit this is some sort of trolling effort.

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Oy. Reading the articles can help: "Trinitas Ventures, an owner, investor, developer, builder and manager of commercial real estate, purchased the 5.8-acre parcel at 311 Straight St. in September 2017 for $27 million. Last year, it started construction on the first phase of redevelopment, the Deacon, a student housing development on the northeast corner of Straight Street and University Court. This $108 million project wraps around an existing parking garage and fills what was mostly vacant property."

Because it is a bad precedent to development in other parts of the city. If you have to be extorted by groups who do not have a specific property interest dictate terms to a willing buyer and seller, you are not very easy to do business with. It makes it much easier to just develop a cornfield ^ That's assuming that location doesn't matter in business location, which it obviously does. This is negotiation, which is somehow praised in business settings, but vilified when communities try to do it. FCC wants land in a community. They want to create noise and light pollution and generate large amounts of traffic, and the community is asking for something in exchange for allowing these negatives in their community. If FCC doesn't like it, let them go develop in a corn field. I'm sure that would get them an MLS bid. I don't see anything wrong with trying to get something positive out of what will otherwise be a major intrusion into the community. Especially given the shady and rushed nature of this deal, where Berding clearly thought he could impose false deadlines to steamroll the community and the school board. FCC has blundered this whole stadium deal from the beginning. That they are even at the point they are in is remarkable, IMO.

Where/when have you heard that Cincinnati doesn’t want tourists? Anywhere that has a large amount of tourists will also have locals who complain about them. Ever hear New Yorkers talk about Times Square? That doesn’t mean people want tourism to cease, of course. It’s just a gripe about the slow/in the way nature of tourists. I sometimes take the Griffith Observatory shuttle to get home from the metro station in my neighborhood, as it goes close enough to my place, and runs longer hours than my normal bus. There are always tourists (mostly international for some reason) and they never know how much the bus costs, where it goes, where to get off, etc. It’s frustrating for me, because I just want to get home, but I don’t wish tourists would stop visiting LA, or even stop taking the bus. I wish the city would run my other bus longer hours and with more frequency so I wouldn’t have to take the observatory bus. I assume people who talk about tourists in Cincy taking parking spaces (also, what? Didn’t know Cincy got enough tourists for this to be an issue, but I’ll take your word for it) don’t want tourism to cease, they simply want easier parking.

Oh, this again ::) We all know how you feel. Do you have any basis for these statements? Why do we have a convention and visitors bureau if this is the case? I hesitate even engaging with you, because I know you'll just respond with more drivel about elites and other nonsense, but if you have a link, or really anything beyond your own opinions on this, perhaps you could share them.

Last week my goofiest cousin was in town and stayed at my house. He didn't really grow up here and has lived all over the country and overseas. He was really rattled by black people hitting him up for money and drugs on the street in Cincinnati. I don't even think about it when it happens, because it happens all of the time, and has happened for as long as I can remember. What's more, it happens WAY LESS than it used to 10+ years ago, so to us who remember how it used to be, we honestly don't think about it today at all. Cincinnati still has a buzz of shadiness about it that I think throws people off. I'm not sure what they think when they come here but I think the ubiquity of low-class commotion makes them uncomfortable. In a place like New York City or New Orleans it's "culture", but in Ohio these people just curl up and want it to all go away. About 6-7 years ago I took a writer from New Orleans on a driving tour of the bad areas of Cincinnati. We drove the length of McMicken, Beekman/State, buzzed around lower Price Hill and the West End. He was loving it. The used tire stores. Those horses in the West End. Kaiser Pickles. Again, that exact same kind of stuff in New Orleans is "culture". Here it's something to run away from. Yeah, I agree completely. I'm tempted to think it's because Cincinnati, and really all of Ohio, has never really embraced its black population. Not to say we should embrace panhandling and the like, but the fact that each of the 3 Cs have large black populations should be a selling point, I think. In a state that most people associate with corn and country white people, our pockets of black culture should be played up. Some of the best funk music ever recorded came out of Cincinnati and Dayton, but almost no one knows that. The Isley Brothers, who are massively respected in musical circles and among black people all over the country, are from Cincinnati (Lincoln Hts but close enough) and the city/region does almost nothing to celebrate that! It's insane! New Orleans' whole narrative is about how the city is this mix of diverse cultures- African Americans, French, Spanish, Native Americans, plus all the hybrid races they have like Creoles and Cajuns, each group contributing to the music, cuisine, and culture of the city. Cincinnati has a unique mix, too, but all we ever hear about is German German German. If we embraced and celebrated the African American and Appalachian communities instead of trying to suppress them and hide them away, Cincy would probably have a cooler culture, and maybe more tolerance for some of the stuff we desperately try to hide away.

The average person just sees what they want to see when they go places for work or pleasure, unfortunately. There are heroin needles and piles of garbage all over San Francisco, but it hasn't put a huge dent in tourism there. But if someone bumped into an aggressive panhandler in Cleveland, it would probably confirm their bias about Cleveland being a terrible place. I'd agree that things could eventually change in the long, long term, but I don't know if playing that long of a game is the most effective use of public funds. How else do you suggest getting people to these cities? Most people won't be going to Cleveland or Cincinnati for vacation. Maybe some people would come for sports or concerts, but those are mostly local or regional draws. Conventions offer a chance to bring people to these cities that they would otherwise have to reason or inclination to visit. If the concern is that people will have a bad experience here, the solution should not be to simply keep visitors away, it's to make the city better. I think more people are likely to have the reverse experience of the one you cited. The average person in the country seemingly has no perception or knowledge of Cincinnati. People I talk to in California generally know that it exists, and maybe that we have a couple pro sports teams, but that's about it. Bring that person to Cincinnati and let them dine at a nice restaurant, and take in the architecture and picturesque streets of OTR, and I think most people would leave pleasantly surprised. When I show coworkers (planners, who theoretically should not be clueless about urban stuff) pictures of OTR, most are blown away and say they had no clue something like that exists off the East Coast. That surprise would almost certainly weigh more heavily in the mind of a visitor than an encounter with a homeless person, unless the visitor is from a small town, and has no exposure to the homeless.

^ Why do you think that? I admit I'm not all that knowledgeable about conventions, as I just recently attended my first real, big convention- the American Planning Association in New Orleans. Other than the lack of meeting space, and possible lack of hotel rooms, what would keep Cincy from hosting such an event? Do you think it's just not seen as a desirable enough location to entice people to come? I know the APA organizers said that New Orleans has historically been their best attended conference, because people want an excuse to visit. The set up of having a big, basically intact historic neighborhood right next to the CBD is very similar to what New Orleans has with the French Quarter and their CBD. I know New Orleans has a whole history of tourism that we don't have, but the revival of OTR could really put Cincy on the map for tourism, I think. The impact of having thousands of planners in town, walking around exploring the neighborhoods, eating at restaurants, going out to the bars and what not no doubt had a big impact on the NO economy for those 4-5 days. The conference also gave me a reason to go to New Orleans, which I had never been to before, and (shamefully) had little interest in going to previously. Now I'm a huge fan of the place, and I can't wait to go back. Cincinnati would benefit immensely from that type of exposure, and conventions are one vehicle to achieve it.

I know these type of people all too well. I had an absolutely horrible internship while in college with one of the County Commissioners. One of the assignments I was given was to work with this citizen budget oversight group way out in Loveland. I don't even know if these people lived in Hamilton County, and if they did, they were RIGHT on the county line. They were seriously nuts, and would pour over various county budgets to look for 'waste', even though they had virtually no clue about anything. They absolutely saw themselves as fighting the good fight to reduce the national debt, while highlighting $30.00 expenditures on bottled water for an event, for example. These types of people are delusional, and really would be better suited to living in the country than in an urban county. Of course, they were completely blind to the fiscal irresponsibility of their sprawly, cul-de-sac neighborhoods.

^ What’s the feeling in Cleveland about Lebron’s chances of staying? I think he’s all but gone at the end of this series...

^ You know, that's an interesting idea. My first reaction was to say no, as convention center space usually has to be contiguous. I still think that could be an issue for true convention business, but I could see some flex/convention space being used for a number of purposes. The trick would be designing the structure so it doesn't look like a big box, as that could serve as another mental barrier between the cbd and the banks. But if you could have a Columbus cap type of situation, where a restaurant fronts the street, you could perhaps tuck in the meeting space behind? Idk how this would all look or work together, but it does seem like an interesting idea for the caps.

^ Hope they can stay at Lunken. It's much more convenient and easy than CVG.

^ Agreed. A new convention center hotel is desperately needed, and the Millennium ownership has shown that they are not interested in keeping up their property, so it's past time to move on. I think it would be ideal if the convention center itself could be expanded across the street, and have the hotel either built on top, or on the 4th street side of the lot. I know the city misses out on a lot of conventions because the facility is simply too small. A modest expansion, coupled with new meeting space in the hotel itself, could create enough new space to land some of the larger conventions. But even if the convention center doesn't expand, having a new, modern convention hotel will help the city a lot. I just hope we can get a building with some height on that lot. Probably a bit of a long shot, but a 25-30 story building there would be great for the skyline.

Love seeing all the progress!

Yeah, in addition to the Chinese restaurants you already noted, there is also the CAM Asian supermarket in Evendale too, and a Chinese bakery in the same strip mall. There’s also Uncle Yips restaurant, which has a decent Dim Sum brunch. Hope they’re still around! If you broaden the scope from strictly Chinese to include all Asian businesses, this area further solidifies itself as the Asian hub of the region. There is a small Japanese grocery called Tokyo Foods, a couple Indian restaurants, an Indian bakery, two small Indian grocers and a large Patel Brothers store. Across the street from Patel Bros, that strip mall is mostly Asian businesses. There’s a good Vietnamese place, a Halal butcher, and a few other Chinese businesses that I can’t temember. Definitely an interesting and unexpected cluster in the burbs!

Wow, that's a pretty crappy take on things. Bromwells was a lonely outpost of activity for a long time on 4th Street- long before Downtown began to turn around. They could have easily packed up and moved their business to Kenwood or NKY or any number of places, but instead they chose to remain downtown, expand and invest in the business, and even open a neighboring business (Harth Lounge). Of course the owner, like nearly everyone, wanted to see the old garage torn down. It was hideous and effectively killed all pedestrian activity on that side of 4th St. That said, the garage provided a ton of parking that was no doubt crucial to the businesses on 4th. Removing the 1,100 parking spaces of the former garage, only to see the site sit vacant for months on end would be extremely frustrating for a business owner. I don't think it's shocking that a neighboring business owner would be supportive of removing the garage, and critical of the developers when its replacement doesn't come to fruition for months, while other projects that were announced later continue to move full steam ahead. It makes complete sense. Requiring everyone to have personal involvement and intimate knowledge of 'the complexities of multi-party large scale mixed used development' to have an opinion on development in absurd. One does not have to be an expert to have an opinion on something. I can say I have a headache without being a brain surgeon. Rather than critique a business owner who has chosen to invest and stick it out in a pretty crappy retail environment (downtown Cincinnati), maybe we should be looking at how this debacle came about, and what could have been done to cause less strain to the surrounding businesses. Maybe the garage should not have been torn down until financing was in place for its replacement? Maybe the city could have identified a temporary parking solution while financing details are worked out for the replacement garage?

^ LOL, so true. This building is so cool and has so much potential. I just hope someone can save it before it deteriorates much more.