edale

lol you're the most defensive Cleveland booster on this forum, and that's saying something. Keep on deflecting and talking about the 'bungles' if that makes you feel better. FYI, the 'bungals' (truly another sad franchise) have beaten the Browns 7 straight times, and 11 out of the last 15 meetings :)

^ Cincinnati is building a stadium for a team that currently does not have one of its own. There is no discussion of building a replacing a stadium. The soccer stadium is also being funded entirely with private money, though parking facilities will be built by the county. The last I've heard, the city is planning on contributing $35 million for infrastructure improvements. If there was a proposal to replace GABP or PBS, I'd 100% be against that, too. I've been critical of the whole FCC plan, too fwiw. The notion that stadiums are good investments for cities is a lie. If it weren't for the fact that the city could be gaining a professional franchise and the stadium is going to be almost entirely privately funded, I'd be adamantly against that, too. None of the Ohio cities have the luxury of choosing to divert money and energy to stupid projects like replacing new and perfectly fine stadiums. I know this is an early discussion, and that nothing is going to happen imminently. The fact that it's a conversation at all is ridiculous, in my opinion. The fact that a team that has won 1 freakin game out of its last 32 is even talking about a new stadium, and it's being entertained by smart, urban focused people on here is distressing. And yes, I do think performance matters in this discussion. The Browns are an embarrassment to the city of Cleveland and Ohio.

Needed? The shot you posted looks like a terrible location for a stadium. Surrounded by freeways and industry...that'd make a great impression to visitors. I get it. Stadiums are sexy projects, and everyone loves to dream about the mega project. But 9 times out of 10, stadiums have very little effect on their surroundings, especially ones that are used only a handful of times per year. Of all the things Cleveland needs, though, I really can't think of a lower priority than a new Browns stadium. You all know your city better than me, but I can't get behind demolishing a perfectly fine and nice stadium that's less than 20 years old. It's a waste of money, waste of materials, bad for the environment, and it's unnecessary. Especially without a solid plan in place for the lakefront, this idea seems nonsensical. They're talking about building this 10yrs from now which means the stadium will be 30yrs old, not 20. Also no details about financing, location, etc. have been announced, so it's probably best to wait and hear the details before jumping to any conclusions. Plans for the lakefront have already been approved and started. Site 1 of phase 1 is complete, and site 2 of phase 1 is nearing completion. It helps if you understand the city before chiming in. http://www.gcpartnership.com/fileuploader/webfiles/Cleveland%20Harbor%20View%20Lakefront%20Development%20Presentation-GCP%2017.5.15.pdf Ok, go for it. Cleveland has a shining track record when it comes to chasing the mega project. The east side of the city is crumbling and the transit system is in dire need of assistance, and the amenities that currently are on the lakefront are accessible from one street. But sure, go ahead and build another stadium for the Browns.

Needed? The shot you posted looks like a terrible location for a stadium. Surrounded by freeways and industry...that'd make a great impression to visitors. I get it. Stadiums are sexy projects, and everyone loves to dream about the mega project. But 9 times out of 10, stadiums have very little effect on their surroundings, especially ones that are used only a handful of times per year. Of all the things Cleveland needs, though, I really can't think of a lower priority than a new Browns stadium. You all know your city better than me, but I can't get behind demolishing a perfectly fine and nice stadium that's less than 20 years old. It's a waste of money, waste of materials, bad for the environment, and it's unnecessary. Especially without a solid plan in place for the lakefront, this idea seems nonsensical.

Serious question, because people keep bringing up the futility of the team; would it matter if the team was Patriots or Steelers level successful when it comes to this argument? Maybe not from a purely economic sense, but in terms of civic pride, I think performance absolutely matters. What have the Browns 2.0 brought to Cleveland other than misery? They're an embarrassment to the city, and I think they've probably hurt the national perception of Cleveland way more than they've helped to keep it on the map during NFL season. Here in LA, people were saying both Darnold and Rosen dodged a bullet by not being drafted by the Browns, which of course stems from the fact that the team is a perpetual nightmare, but naturally led into some Cleveland digs as well, even on the local news. With nearly identical climates and similar city vibes, that type of stuff just wouldn't be said about Pittsburgh, because the Steelers are successful and respected around the country. Why reward a team that constantly makes the city look like loserville?

^I'm surprised to see you're in favor of this KJP[/member] . In a region that is threatening to shut down its rail transit system because it can't afford the cost of new cars or repairs to existing infrastructure, how does it make any sense to spend massive amounts of money on a new stadium for a team that hasn't even sniffed the playoffs in years? The new amtrak station and bridge from the malls can't even get funded, but you're ok with this proposal? Come on, where is the sense of priorities and/or fiscal responsibility?

^Probably a programming issue more than a problem with the space. Some sort of low key concert series could be cool there. Putting a building on the lawn would block the views from the apartments and hotel just to the north. I think it's ok to have that space remain open, and I don't have a problem with the little wedge space southwest of the carousel becoming an extension of the park either.

Is there a lakefront master plan anywhere? It seems like there is a lot on the lakefront already with the Rock Hall, Great Lakes Science Center, Voinovich Park/Pier, and the stadium, but what is lacking is connections from downtown. If the Browns stadium goes away, is there a plan in place for its replacement? In the discussion of Burke Airport potentially closing, it doesn't sound like there's been any real thought as to what would replace it if it does close. Has such an effort been undertaken for the Browns stadium? Demolishing a stadium that is less than 20 years old seems like a colossal waste of money and resources. I went to a concert at the stadium last summer, and while getting there and back out was challenging, the actual stadium seemed pretty nice to me. If you're going to spend a billion dollars on a mega project, how about capping the shoreway and railway that separates the city from the lake?

Indy’s football stadium is not connected to the convention center. The former RCA Dome was, but Lucas Oil is a bit outside of downtown.

Are there city incentives being used to fund this coffee shop? If so, I absolutely agree that the money spent on this would be better spent renovating an actual storefront. If not, I still think this plan could be better thought out. Maybe designate the entire lot as a sort of food cart zone ala Portland? Have several of these modular shipping container looking structures clustered to create a bit of critical mass. Offer the spaces for low rent to allow for the neighborhood to participate. It would create a low cost business incubator of sorts, and if a business is successful, it can spin off to find a brick and mortar location in the city. Findlay Market has served this function pretty well in Cincinnati. Businesses start with a single stall in the market for pretty cheap. There's a community kitchen that's available so equipment costs are kept low, too. Several businesses have started out this way, including Taste of Belgium, which now has 3-4 locations in Cincy, but also has expanded to Columbus and Nashville. A one-off trailer coffee shop on a vacant lot is surely aiming pretty low.

All of a sudden, the neighborhood concerns about noise impacts seem a lot more justified. I wonder if Berding told the community about the possibility of a concert venue being included with the stadium deal. I think a concert venue makes sense on the riverfront, but the west end? I guess the devil is in the details, and we won't see the details until the thing is already under construction, if Berding and Co. stick to their usual mode of operating.

The photos in that write up are pretty crappy. Almost all the instagrams I saw from the weekend were better than the photos they used!

The chandelier/gateway feature could go over Walnut or Vine or Main, in theory. That is where a gateway would go, not over Central. The analogy was used because it's a placemaking tool that I don't think is necessary here.

^ I was just joking about the chandelier. Don't get all worked up. I just meant there isn't a need to do something beyond following the tenets of good urbanism. No need for archways ala Short North or Short Vine to announce your arrival into OTR. The architecture and built form is distinct enough from the rest of the city, that it does all the announcing that would be needed.

I have faith that infill will come to the smattering of vacant lots and surface parking lots in OTR, but I think some real attention needs to be paid to the southern gateway to the neighborhood along Central Parkway. Other than the Emery Building where Coffee Emporium is, there are surface parking lots and some inactive and inhospitable uses fronting Central. The block on Main where the Davis furniture building is located is probably the worst, but even at Vine there is a parking lot in front of the Tarbell mural. Since OTR is becoming more and more of a tourist destination, and most tourists stay downtown, this entrance to the neighborhood is critically important. I don't think we need to get chintzy and put in a giant chandelier over the street (sorry, had to cleveland), but a solid streetwall with active ground floor uses would do wonders. Court Street is about to get a makeover with the Kroger and apartments, and the 3CDC conversion of some of the historic buildings along that street, so that will help ease the entry to OTR on the south side of Central, but I think some real attention needs to be paid to the north side. Even some new streetscaping and maybe some bike lanes along Central could also help. IMO, this is just as important as the Liberty Street road diet project.

I've never been so bummed to miss a concert/festival. A bunch of my favorite acts, in a dramatic and cool location in my home town- it looked amazing. If this becomes an annual event, I am so there next year.

Are the two historic buildings in that photo also being renovated (one on Race and one on Pleasant)? What is the plan for the vacant lot(s) where the construction vehicles are currently?

^ I've not heard the Amazon excuse given anywhere? Where did you hear that? The project was supposed to be ready to go until...it wasn't. Yet the Kroger development magically went from announcement to construction very fast. The Cran man issued all these announcements about projects coming 'back online' right before the election (Skyhouse, 4th and Race), and yet none of these projects have progressed at all. Hmm...

I just got back from my first ever visit to New Orleans, and it is definitely in my top 5. What a wonderful, lively, unique city. If I had to bump one, I'd toss Montreal into the honorable mention category.

Not to get too far off track from this thread topic, but google streetview captured this neighborhood in Springfield in 2007 and you can take a virtual tour of it. Block after block after block of historic homes and the street grid they occupied were completely obliterated for a hospital and associated surface parking 4x larger than the building itself. Absolutely disgusting before https://goo.gl/maps/qZjttkhsurz, after https://goo.gl/maps/4Ezy8ZTKSGF2 before https://goo.gl/maps/12R1uFvWGGq, after https://goo.gl/maps/pKSZSvZfWhk before https://goo.gl/maps/yvdz2siQNtH2, after https://goo.gl/maps/vxf8ns6BXEn Whole scale demolition of historic neighborhoods for GIANT surface parking like this should be criminal.

Has Children's finished demolishing properties for this expansion, or are some of these homes pictured here going to also come down? It's truly a shame how more and more historic building stock is being removed, even if it is to accommodate growth of a truly great and globally respected institution. I remember reading that Children's invested money in the Port Authority to renovate 40 (maybe getting the number wrong) homes in Avondale, to try to jump start the revitalization of the residential portions of the neighborhood. I hope we see much more of that, and that Children's can finally start being a beneficial force for the neighborhood.

Probably because it's in Orange County, which almost always gets lumped together as one entity in discussions like these. Southern Orange County is very nice and relaxed though, even compared to the other beach cities further north like Newport and Huntington Beach.

That looks miserable to me. To each his own, though. I don't think I've contributed here, so I'll give a go at my top 5: - New York - Paris - Amsterdam - London - Montreal Honorable mention: Berlin, Geneva, San Francisco Smaller cities: Santa Barbara, Savannah, Newport (RI), Quebec City

Why does the back of a building need a cornice though?

Yeah, there are some dead zones in Bunker Hill for sure. The first link you posted is actually a bridge over a sunken street. The hill portion of Bunker Hill is definitely the worst offender, but all of it is pretty corporatey 9-5. It's not great, but it has actually come a long way in a relatively short time period. It's never going to be a dynamic 24/7 area, and I can see why visitors might find it a bit confusing.