edale

That can get super confusing, though. I dislike all the honorific names given to freeways in LA because I have a hard time keeping track of what is what. You have the Harbor freeway (110), Golden State (5), Santa Monica (10), Arroyo Seco (110, again), Hollywood (101), Ventura (101 and 134)... just too confusing!

I'm watching the NBA playoffs on ESPN, and just saw an ad for Goodyear that I thought was an ad for Cleveland at first. It features nice skyline shots, one of the cursiveish Cleveland signs that are around town, and at the end they had a cartoon version of the skyline and the Q (refusing to call it a fu***** field house) with the Goodyear logo. Has anyone seen it? Pretty cool and great national visibility for Cleveland! *watching in Los Angeles, so this isn't just a regional ad

Wow, that's super frustrating and so predictable. They chose to build a squat little building on one of the premier corners of downtown rather than the tower that had been planned there for years, and now the little building is all full and they need more space, and the city's left with the deathstar at 5th and Race for years to come. So dumb.

Ok that makes more sense. I was wondering why 5th and Race, a “billboard” on the west side (don’t think of the Cincinnati sign as a billboard), and the old, brutalist design of the convention center were being grouped in one post! As for the convention center’s entrance at 5th and Elm, I do not think it’s very attractive but I do kind of enjoy that interior lobby space. The outside is is pretty hideous, and that dull brown color of the walls feels dated and gross. I think it’d be great if the entrance could be redone, perhaps with more glass and a little more grandeur and openness to the corner. It doesn’t have the whimsy that I associate with post modern buildings- just seems cheaply done with a tacky sign out front.

I mostly agree with you. The old square was pretty bad for a number of reasons- the stage, the vast openness, the lack of programming, lack of retail options around it, sorry state of the garage, etc. But I don't agree that the fountain should be moved because it's a fountain and didn't deserve to be the center of attention. It is FOUNTAIN Square, after all. The fountain is not some after thought or decorative piece of flair that was added to make the plaza more appealing. It's the very reason for the square existing at all! Now, I don't think the fountain has really stopped being the focal point of the square, per se, but I do think it's pushed back a little too far from 5th street, and it kind of blends in or is overpowered by the trees, temporary stage, and Via Vite. I don't think it's a big enough issue to warrant a move, but it's not an ideal location for the fountain, imo. I also think we really have to acknowledge that the square is not a real public square anymore. It's a programmed semi-private space. This has led to great things, like barring the KKK from holding rallies there and the increased programming that led to the Square being used MUCH more than it was in the past. But a public square it is not, and with 5/3 closing off the connection to Walnut, taking up more space of the square itself, building their own permanent stage and new video screen, it feels like it's moving more toward a highly programmed corporate plaza. Again, this could have positive benefits, but it marks another slide away from FS being a true public space, which I think we need to be honest about. Public spaces around the country are disappearing as PPPs increasingly replace municipal ownership and management of these types of spaces. Great for keeping the KKK and such out. Maybe not so great in other scenarios.

Which part of the corner are you talking about? If you're trying to say that Saks is good, noteworthy architecture, then I definitely disagree. I was never a fan of the 8451 building, but that's more because of the height rather than the building itself, though I don't love the black facade and I feel it will become dated pretty fast. I actually like the Race St. side of the Macy's though. The rounded glassy corner is cool. There isn't enough porosity for an urban block, but that is understandble given that it was designed as a department store, which don't like to have multiple entrances and exits. Punch some openings into the base, and some windows on the second and third floors, and I think it'd be alright. Obviously the last remaining building on that corner, the Hilton Netherland Plaza, is a gem. Also, what billboard on the west side are you talking about. I seldom made it over to the West Side, so I probably haven't seen this billboard, but you've piqued my interest!

So under the current plan, the sidewalk along the south side of Liberty will be extended to where the cars are parked in that photo, right? If parking is still going to be allowed on that side of the street, then the eastbound side of Liberty will have one travel lane and a turn lane or median depending on the block? I'm still confused about the alignment of this project, but it seems like the wider sidewalk would at least be an improvement over current conditions, and a better option than the proposed bump outs.

Yeah, my experience was parking at the P&G garage on 6th, and walking down to the games from there. I do remember basically walking from the garage to the stadium and back, though. Not sure what else a parent would do with a kid before or after games back then. It's not like my dad was going to take me to a bar to hangout, and we usually ate at the stadium, so dinner wasn't an option. I do remember how crazy crowded those pedestrian bridges would get after games, and how loud they'd be both with people talking but also all the street performers who'd congregate in there.

Yes, and then I went to street view and saw that the building is in a very central location downtown, which is why I asked the question. It’s right next to the Key Tower, a block from Public Square, two blocks from the Red line at Tower City. The building facade is gorgeous and some of the apartments have lake views. Idk, doesn’t seem that bad to me.

How is one block from Public Square a bad location?

Also, Pittsburgh's topography makes Cincinnati seem like Columbus. The hills and ravines and such make things seem much further than they are, and the freeway network in Pittsburgh is pathetic compared to basically anywhere. So the concept of getting in your car and driving out to the burbs to visit the Apple store is much less appealing in a place like Pittsburgh than it is in Cincinnati. Also, that Apple Store has been there quite a while, and I wouldn't be surprised if the proximity to Carnegie Melon had something to do with it. When you have a major, UC size institution (Pitt), plus a small but incredibly well respected tech-centric school like CMU, plus a large, dense swath of affluent urban neighborhoods, one can see why Apple and other national retailers have chosen to locate in Shadyside.

Or.....because Council has to approve all zone changes? Guess that's not dramatic enough of a reason for you, but it's pretty much the whole story.

^ @jjakucyk It's much more affluent than either Corryville or Northside. It has the large old apartment buildings buildings like you'd find off Ludlow in Clifton, some nice, big homes like you'd find in Clifton or Mt. Lookout (though on smaller lots and much more tightly packed), and some old mansions mostly clustered around 5th Ave, which is what much of the neighborhood looked like before these large lots got subdivided. I could mayyybe see a comparison to Northside in terms of building typologies, but I don't think Corryville has many similarities to Shadyside at all. Maybe Clifton and parts of Covington combined into one neighborhood-- idk what the right Cincy analogue would be, tbh.

Right. I was thinking about that, and how there really isn't a comparable neighborhood in Cincinnati. Shadyside is kind of like if Hyde Park and Clifton were combined into one neighborhood. It's considerably denser than either of those two neighborhoods, and surrounded by other successful urban neighborhoods like Squirrel Hill, Oakland, and the newly gentrified East Liberty, so their business district has a pretty large 'catch basin' from which to pull in shoppers. I'm sure the demographics are more favorable there than just about any Cincinnati neighborhood. I'd love to see an Apple store go downtown or somewhere in OTR, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them expand to Rookwood before going downtown.

I hope the new hotel has an active frontage on both 4th and 5th streets, is tall enough to make an impact on the skyline, and has an interesting roof design. Too many boring, flat roofed buildings on the west side of downtown.

^ The new convention hotel in Cleveland is about 600 rooms, I think. Sounds like that'd be about right for Cincinnati, too. Given the spacial limitations of the Convention Center, I think it'd be cool if most of the ground floor of the new hotel could be convention space, with the hotel occupying a corner or portion of the street level space to activate it a bit. It would kill two birds with one stone, and might force the hotel to be built a little taller than if it had the whole site to work with.

This is great! The art museum is really hidden, and doesn’t have much of an impact on the neighborhood and park around it. I’m glad the art museum will be increasing visibility from Gilbert and establishing a direct, lit and landscaped pathway up to the museum and Mt Adams. This should also allow for some cool outdoor installations, too. Isn’t the vehicular entrance being rerouted to the front of the museum? That’s a pretty major change, and I imagine it requires a fair amount of excavation and grading. I’d be interested to see more detailed plans on this whole project.

Is open container allowed on Broadway in Nashville? I really enjoyed walking around the French Quarter and other New Orleans neighborhoods while carrying around a drink. I’m not even a big drinker, but just being able to walk around with one felt nice and encouraged movement through the neighborhood rather than staying in one or two establishments. It seems like this might be a good idea for OTR, though it could also get kind of rowdy.

Woot, this is huge for Dayton! Is that vacant taller building on the corner included in the reno plans?

Would it? Bar Louie sucks.

I’d have to imagine that the value of the new real estate that’d be created with the 5 lane option would more than pay for the rest of the project. It’s one of those cases where I think one could legitimately argue that the project would pay for itself. In the grand scheme of things, $1million is not that much money, especially if it leads to tens/hundreds of millions of dollars in new investment. Pastor is acting very small town here, especially with this crossing guard nonsense.

lol, ok cool.

This has been such a frustrating situation to follow. You have one of the most beautiful and prized urban neighborhoods in the country in OTR. Its revitalization has done more to lift Cincinnati's image than literally anything else in the past 30+ years, and one can envision a scenario where OTR becomes a nationally known destination ala the French Quarter. You have a super wide, ugly street that bisects the neighborhood, essentially cutting it into two pieces. There is a possibility to not only stitch OTR back into one cohesive neighborhood, but also create new land in this highly desirable, increasingly tourist driven area, and the Mayor and some of Council comes out against it?! Make it make sense! It's so incredibly short sighted and myopic to not seize this incredible opportunity. Turning Liberty into a beautiful, tree lined, pedestrian friendly street, while creating new land and opportunities for new infill should be an absolute no-brainer. Surely Cranley knows that OTR is Cincinnati's best shot for becoming a noteworthy domestic and international tourist destination. When the NYT and other national publications write about Cincinnati it's basically all they write about, because it's gorgeous, hip, designed in a way that wouldn't and couldn't be built today, and frankly, it's surprising to many on the coasts that such an environment exists in Cincinnati. Knowing this, you would think the city would fully support any and all efforts to remove barriers to success and to increase connections across from the booming southern portion to the largely vacant and untouched northern portions of OTR. The controversy over this project is baffling, but also so typical of Cincinnati's toxic political culture.

Ok, so where is the legal challenge? If there was a contractual obligation to turn the Emery into a working theater, why not take it to the courts? If it was more of a good faith understanding, then there's not much we can do about it. I think turning the building into apartments at a time when there wasn't much going on in OTR was hugely beneficial, so it's not like UC has been a slumlord for the building. Other than the history, and whatever past agreements were made, can you make a case for why the neighborhood and this part of the basin would need or benefit from another theater?

So we should create another venue that we don't need, that won't have a host tenant, because....UC said they would renovate the theater 20, 30 years ago? It seems like nearly every theater I go to has some sort of claim about acoustic perfection, so that doesn't resonate with me, true as it may be. Hundreds of millions of dollars were just spent renovating Music Hall and Memorial Hall. Renovating another old theater, which honestly is hidden in plain sight and not an eye sore in the slightest, is a low priority for my OTR wish list. I'd rather see it renovated to office space so that the Salvation Army could move in from next door, and that whole block could be redeveloped as a true gateway to OTR and Main St.