jonoh81

Burj Columbus incoming.

Oh look, another Brutus post full of ad-hominems, deflection and excuses in order to avoid addressing the actual point of contention most people are arguing. Are the proposed changes what the people of Ohio voted for? Yes or no?

You can argue that these changes are no big deal all you want. We're still left with the basic fact that none of these changes are what the voters wanted and ultimately supported with their vote. So no matter how many ways you act like this isn't a big deal, it remains a completely anti-democratic FU to the voters by the Republican Party in an increasing list of such actions against the people of Ohio. You can't get around that fact no matter how much you believe those actions are "practical". A practical disregard for democratic results is still a disregard for democratic results.

I'm old enough to remember when conservatives/Republicans were against home rule on things like the minimum wage, plastic bag bans or gun regulations. Now it's "city zoning codes are great if they block something I disagree with." There's just zero consistent ideology with the Right except when it comes to benefitting their ability to control others.

Almost all states with the worst gerrymandering are red. Almost all the states with the least gerrymandering are blue. You could argue that at a most basic possible level, both parties gerrymander. But that would be a very incomplete and arguably intellectually dishonest statement in terms of which side absolutely uses it more and to what degree. It's pretty clear which party depends on gerrymandering to survive.

Brutus up in here with the "You have to pass it first to know what's in it".

The only acceptable action from Republicans is to create the regulations that adhere to the standards the people voted for. Anything beyond that is intentionally undermining the will of the voters and calling them all rubes who didn't understand it.

It's all just so dumb. No drag events were taking place with children being forced to attend. Parents were taking kids to drag story hour, etc. Random kids weren't showing up. And there's nothing to protect kids from, anyway.

I figured, but that just means they themselves promote sprawl beyond their own stores.

Why would Menards even need 300 acres?

It's not be definition, it's by design. People in the suburbs tend to reject density at every turn, but there is nothing that inherently restricts density otherwise.

It's a similar story in Columbus. Downtown there grew by 4,731 2010-2020 in about 3.53 square miles. That's a growth rate of 1,340.2 people per square mile. Compare that rate to the surrounding suburbs. Hilliard: +614.5 Sunbury: 460.7 Reynoldsburg: +454.3 Delaware: +323.7 Grove City: +319.1 Dublin: +302.6 Canal Winchester: +251.4 Westerville: +241 Gahanna: +196.7 New Albany: +185 So Downtown grew at a rate more than 2x faster the fastest-growing suburb. Downtown also added more overall people than like half of these entire suburbs. The only thing really stopping even higher growth is the lack of urban housing and city leadership that doesn't push for it nearly enough.

Breaking News: More things happen where more people live. Film at 11.

No. I will continue to be concerned that such things are even being proposed by one of the 2 main national parties of the country. The fact that such ideas are even being proposed is concerning enough, but this is a pattern with Republicans and the Right. It's not merely venting about the results of one voting cycle, but a steady escalation of extremist, anti-democratic rhetoric/action from a party that less than 3 years ago attempted a very real insurrection. It was more than just one woman. 24 Ohio Republicans signed that pledge, and more Republicans nationally and in the media were basically calling for the vote to be ignored. And I don't know what you mean by "she may identify as a Republican". Are you suggesting the woman you're talking about isn't one? And I don't think it's a minority, either in Ohio or nationally. Again, the leader of the party is talking about doing far worse if he wins re-election, and almost all Republicans will vote for him in 2024. Can you give some quotes or specific actions from any of Ohio or national Dems that call for or support the undermining of a democratic public vote? You keep trying to claim a Democratic equivalency for everything Republicans do, but never seem to offer any actual examples. No, it's absolutely not, and you haven't given any shred of proof to support this claim. What's actually happening seems to be more that you're uncomfortable admitting Republicans have become far more extreme than Republicans have long claimed that Democrats are, and are making these silly, unsupportable "both sides" posts to project that extremism onto everyone as if it's normal. Dems have plenty of faults, but an embrace of fascist tendencies hasn't been one of them. So again, what are the examples of extremism by Democrats in Ohio or nationally? Whether most voters ultimately reject him, the reality is that Republicans have not and will not. The people that are rejecting that extremism are mostly center moderates and people to the Left. And if anything, our election and democratic systems have been shown to be far weaker than we thought because they still rely on leaders who uphold them. Normal politics, which is what you're trying to suggest all this is, does not involve leaders calling for the will of the people to be ignored, the punishment of political enemies via the State, rounding up people into camps or an insurrection at the Capitol led by a losing president and a large number of government enablers across DC and multiple states. If you can't even admit that things are not normal, and that Republicans in Ohio and nationally are largely responsible for that condition, then there is no point in continuing this debate. We cannot debate the problem when one side is in an alternate reality.

Eh, just like some other projects with massive surface lots and underutilized space, I kind of hate this. Just not all that impressed with some of the "urban" projects the city core is getting.

It was originally proposed to have office buildings or residential built on top of it, but for whatever reason, it didn't happen.

Did they just leave out half the windows? That's a whole lot of blank wall.

I'm going to ignore your typical ad hominem on reading comprehension as others are already pointing out this is getting to be a very played out part of your modus operandi here. Instead, let's examine what the crux of the relevant argument seems to be. You are essentially saying that the reasoning behind such a proposal doesn't matter, not only because it's unlikely to pass, but also because it would be shot down by the courts as unconstitutional. Fine, let's accept that premise for a second. Could you therefore explain why the Republican Party is knowingly promoting unconstitutional legislation in the first place? If you're saying it's for the base, wouldn't you then be supporting what I've already said in that the Republican voters are starting to demand such anti-democratic action? Wouldn't you then still be supporting what myself and others are saying- that the party overall is headed in a very dangerous direction? I tend to think that the reasoning behind this rhetoric and these actions do matter, because unlike you- who may or may not actually even believe what they're typing out- I have no such confidence that something like this couldn't move forward. Even if 99% of such legislation ultimately failed, I'd still be worried about that 1%, as it begins to set a precedent that would be difficult to back away from. Such moves may fail now, but will they tomorrow if they continue to be normalized? Republicans are testing the waters, so to speak. They're seeing just how these proposals are being received by the conservative base and seeing how far they can push the boundaries before seeing any real pushback. And so far, they've been able to push far beyond what anyone who knows history should ever be comfortable with. No one on my "side" is threatening democracy. The leader of your party is currently talking about concentration camps in America. Get your house in order.

No, just no. This is not naivety or a lack of experience. Republicans are proposing things like this not because they don't know how bills or government work. They are doing it because the party and their voters are increasingly accepting of antidemocratic action, because they are getting comfortable with the idea of fascism if it means they get to control others and the system itself. The point is not whether any individual action or bill from these people moves forward, but that they are increasingly proposing and defending such things directly in the face of democratic results. You try so hard to obfuscate and create this false narrative about how it's merely new job jitters- and then lie about Democrats doing it too to soothe the guilt- but this is where the entire party is going.

Is it this? https://columbusohdev.app.box.com/s/suepqody7kj2mi8cocu0e7ifghcm8qk0

And if/when they do it, Brutus will move the goalposts and claim fascism won't be that bad and the Dems are doing it anyway.

I'm sorry, but this is the height of intellectual dishonesty. I just don't how you can type this stuff and expect to be taken seriously. But that's what you guys aren't understanding. The majority does not want the GOP's proposals, nor does the majority see them as reasonable. The "good policy" in this case would actually be essentially a return to Roe or what Ohioans just passed. Furthermore, if Republican voters were so angry with the Right for promoting extremist, unpopular policies, they wouldn't keep voting for them, with Trump being at the very top of that extreme heap given he made it possible to overturn Roe in the first place. So I completely reject the premise you're pushing that normal GOP voters want reason and compromise. They absolute want Jim Jordan and Matt Huffman and Jennifer Gross and Donald Trump and their twisted vision for America. Just like when Dems lose what? When Dems lose, they concede and go back to the drawing board like normal people. You really have absolutely no argument that there's an equivalency. And no, the public does not have to give the Right time to vent, especially when that venting involves discussion of going as far as undermining the entire judiciary to ignore a democratic result. That is not normal behavior or normal venting, that is downright fascist. They can believe whatever they want, no one is saying otherwise. But we're talking about tangible actions that infringe on the rights of others because of those beliefs. It's well beyond just a matter of simple, respectful disagreement. You all tried to remove rights from women and were smacked down. Now you're threatening even more rights to get your way. Supporting democracy vs not supporting democracy is pretty black and white, though. Conservatives are absolutely presenting themselves as a threat to democracy right now.

Here's an example from Jennifer Gross, one of the signees of that pledge. These people are extremists, and engage in lies about what happens during an abortion. When people like her frame this debate as godly people fighting against people who want to rip babies apart, you quickly realize they are capable of anything.

If blue voters actually show up like they did in 2018, Brown should be fine. The rhetoric that he's in danger is entirely based on the belief that Ohio is now a deep red state, but if anything, the actual political makeup of the state is slightly more favorable for a Democrat than a Republican since the last time he was elected. This is because the only growing demographics in the state are those that tend to overwhelmingly vote Democratic. Democrats, anyone left-of-center and those conservatives who still value our democracy should all turn out to vote for Brown.

The comments made by some of these representatives on their social media accounts are downright scary. They will absolutely burn the country to the ground to force their view on us all.