cle2032

My point or frustration is directed towards the fact that very little has been done while the street is under construction, allowing for a huge fanfare opening of the street and other buildings in 2008/9. We can't blame this construction for everything! Whether it be 515 or CSU's "University Town", why are we waiting until now to start something? Who's going to walk down Euclid if nothing is there or will be there in 3-5 years? What is the ECP really connecting? If it is to be truely successful, it HAS to connect more than Public Sq. and UC. I must connect all of the intermediate spaces and places to eachother and the rest of the city. Oh and by the way... Why is everything in this city is 3-5 years away!? :drunk:

Thanks for the nice words! You're right, E.4TH and a bit of Playhouse Sq. is buzzing with hammers and nails despite the mess.

Pope, that's the easy way out and an excuse for why the ECP hasn't spurred any new development! Please don't jump on that bandwagon. It's 2007 and wonderful 3-D rendering programs exists for people who have no imagination. If a prospective buyer was that difficult, give them a pretty picture so they can "see" it. I really doubt they'd have trouble selling units if a couple of our developers and their buddies had multiple projects under construction simultaneously. Think power in numbers. I think 515 and a couple other small/mid size projects would fair extremely well if marketed as a neighborhood. This isn't Phoenix or Vegas where new neighborhoods are born overnight. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Cleveland to take back its Avenue. For Christ's sake, wasn't this once deemed as beautiful or 2nd most beautiful street after the Champs Elysees? We can't look at this as a torn up street who couldn't sell an apple to a hungry man. I hope I'm not being too vicious but the ECP will be a waste if no one invests in it soon. We can't keep putting things off until tomorrow. I'm not trying to be corny but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

Ah good old ECP... Forgive me if this has been already addressed but there is something that really pushes my red button! It's this whole, chicken/egg argument regarding the ECP. Does the new street bring people or do people make the new street 'successful'? Let's take the 515 tower for example. Now I'm not an economist but sometimes I think that might be a good thing. Ignorance is bliss sometimes, right? Anyways, back on track... We've speculated that the 515 tower construction will not begin until ECP is complete and sometime has been spent studying the feasibility of building the tower, right? I cannot understand why some developer(s) would not undertake this project while the rest of the street looks like hell so that it's completion can correspond with ECP's completion. I personally think that a new shiny residential tower straddling this much acclaimed project would do wonders in enhancing the perception that Clevelanders and non-Clevelanders have on Euclid and the Silver Line. No one is going to think the Silver Line is worthwhile if even fewer storefront exist now that before the project began. Granted some restoration is underway around E.4th/Euclid but if I were a developer, I'd like my project to be able to use the new Euclid instead of opening another wound and making people wait even longer for a ped-friendly and vehicle-friendly Euclid. Why are people afraid of being the guinea pig? Haven't we been taught that we have to give a little to get a little? That relates to $$$ too! It is physically impossible for Euclid to transform itself over night and the majority of people out there are going to think of the ECP as a waste since it will take years for the activity to flourish as we all hope/anticipate. True visionaries would have ceased the opportunity to create something special a few years ago when Euclid's downtime commenced. I hope that come next November :roll: we will see a lot of world class signage on Euclid because NO ONE has the right to b*tch about the ECP not being successful if none of our developers gave it a chance--invested in it's revival. I hope they all don't sit around waiting for the other person to make the first move becaouse before we know it, poof, we're back to where we started... Now the 668 Euclid bid package is due tomorrow...What will become of that? God I wish I had money to do something here!

Is it true that NEO's 50th Dick's Sporting Goods is going in SYC? Do we really need another?! I think IKEA would be a nice addition but who am I kidding...Ohio has 1 Ikea and metro Toronto has 4. Anyways...

I agree, Tremont needs some sort of grocery store. It's "isolated" from the rest of the city and it's unfortunate that such a "hip" community can't walk to a grocery store! I don't think walking along Abbey is an acceptable alternative-esp. during unfriendly weather.

Milan of Midwest, Amsterdam of Midwest, keep the nicknames comin! :|

Wow, I didn't know they've been at this for over a decade! Did they adverstise for E. 4th back then like East Bank and WHD have been publicized?

I love how I'm negatively and positvely flustered everytime I read something on UO!!! So many things going on!

The latest issue of Cleveland magazine had a nice illustration of E. 4th St. with the current and anticipated tenants! It makes you look forward to next year's NBA finals when they'll be able to show more street footage of downtown Cleveland than just the Rock Hall! :wink: Anyways, it's amazing how far this street has come in the past couple of years. Hopefully the proposed projects for downtown are as careful and successful in selecting new tenants! The thing that makes this project so great is that shovels were put into the ground and the neighborhood changed for the better. We weren't stuck sitting on the edge of our seats for years waiting for SOMETHING to show signs of life. I'm looking forward to the future projects that MRN is undertaking!

Yay!!! The PD recognizes the Innerbelt Urban Scar!!! Much more pro-urban than Innerbelt Congestion-Free Zone (which I think is how our ODOT 'buddies' down south refer to the project). What would TRUE visionaries do? Recognize that gas isn't getting any cheaper and build a new innerbelt that reverses-as much as possible-the urban scar effects with a structurally-sound bridge. That should be the vision. No glam or glitz. Do what's necessary to let people cross the valley while at the same time, reparing our neighborhoods. Use any extra money for expanding rapid transit since any visionary would see that our culture will change in the future--a sustainable people! City-living, bike-riding, block-walking ,healthy, HAPPY :-D Clevelanders! who the rest of the world envies b/c we had the vision back in ole 2007!

I don't doubt our credentials in attempting to land MM, but I'm very afraid of the psychological impact this will have on the region if we're not awarded MM. The media and politicians are making this out to be second-coming of Christ in terms of Cleveland's revival. While I think that it will have an extraordinary impact on the region, I don't think we should all move to Nashville or Charlotte if it goes somewhere else. I wish everyone would take their blinders off and stop thinking linearly. We can MULTITASK!!! :clap:

If this is true, I can't say that I'm shocked...disappointed, yes. I'm not an expert when it comes to running an airline-although one could question the current CEOs and co.-but it seems absurd that CLE could not support one 757 flight to CDG during peak tourist season! We, as in Americans (white shoes and all :|) infest the city (and continent for that matter) and you'd think that there has to be 200 +/- people in this country who'd rather go through easy-breezy CLE than any east coast airport. In the meantime, let's hope this is just a mean joke that some dorky forum person posted :wink: If it isn't, let's thank the prior administrations who let CLE bathe in mediocracy for all of these decades. There are so many wonderful things about the city/region, however, the status quo attitudes put a real damper on our jewels.

Yeah but at the end of the day, the zebra's stripes are still the same...We need to light a huge fire under the derrieres of our beloved button pushers-not just with this project,but with all of the projects which seem to be referred to as the proverbial "silver bullet". Enough of this "do it tomorrow" crap! We need some visionaries in this city! For the most part, all we have are people concerned about making a name for themselves and using the city to achieve it. We need leaders who want to make an name for Cleveland, and give themselves in entirety to this endeavour! We need visionaries-People addressing/preventing tomorrow's problems TODAY-not the old men's club "fixing" yesterday's mistakes TOMORROW!

and by "everyone else" i'm referring to the planners and developers.

Forgive me for going off topic there but with 41 pages in this thread already, I didn't think my 3 sentence "rant" impeded on the legitimacy of this thread. I'm sorry, I was just aggravated because in this city, we ACTUALLY are able to complain about the delayed streetscaping of a few blocks because everyone else is all talk and lives by the mantra, "there's always tomorrow." I love this city but come fricking on!

Those old factories around Berea Road on the west side could make for a very cool neighborhood! There's a nice density already and cleaning up the neighborhood could potentially make this the new "hot" neighborhood-esp. with its proximity to the rapid. The neighborhood reminds me of parts of southside Chicago/stockyards. It would be nice to see this area take off!

Welcome to Cleveland! Why do things now when there's always tomorrow?! :roll: AHHH!!! I went running yesterday along Northcoast harbor and remember the plan designed by VOA back in the late '90s. I then was thinking about other lakefront plans...Why has there been not one stone moved to commence some sort of lakefront revival?! God! I'm not changing topics here but I'd like to know what we're waiting for in this city! My reasoning...The sooner things are 'fixed', the sooner we'll have less to b*tch about. Gotta love this city! :wink:

Nice pictures and it's great to see more Clevelanders involved on this forum! Change begins with us 'converting' one friend, pollenating NEO with UOers like ourselves who really "believe in Cleveland"!!!

I'd start a new newspaper! Especially since the front page story for July 30 was about the drive-in! Where do we live?!?!

not to stray away from this OC thread but I have one more question for KJP... When I asked about the potential for increased traffic at Tower City station, I really meant could the station handle a few more lines (I should have been clearer). Could an orange, purple, and yellow line-or w/e color our hearts desire-operate in addition to the current lines with similar frequencies (or better yet, better frequencies if ridership warranted it?) Just wondering...

yes the best stroopwafesl are definetly located on the other side of the atlantic! I would eat a pack of them for my meals! SOOOO GOOD AND ADDICTING!

West Side Market sells stroopwafels!!! That's all you need to know!

Wow 10 million is a impressive number in itself. Just curious, what would those numbers have been about 40 +/- years ago? Also KJP, I was wondering if you knew the max. capacity that Tower City could accomodate if the Rapid/commuter rail expanded? Is the station capable of a 300-400% increase in service?

anyone else have a warm tingly feeling inside? All this activity festering under Cleveland's surface...I can't wait until it ruptures and cranes are scattered all over the place!!!