cle2032

For all intents and purposes, +$1 BILLION??? This is absolutely disgusting! Frankly, can't we just spend 1/3 of the price on something that looks like valleyview and distribute the rest on something more worthwhile? Of course not because those at ODOT have no mind of their own, no originality, no common sense. This city/state is in NO position to justify spending over $1 billion on some copycat bridge while there are other areas equally deserving of investment. The bridge will not make Cleveland and/or Ohio cosmopolitan AT ALL and capping the current trench-forming a 'tunnel'-will speak volumes about the city (in a positive manner). The word "design" should not be desecrated by being applied to what seems to be the new bridge. Function follows form--Especially if $1 billion is going into the project! The damn thing better work! Our ODOT leaders (and anyone else involved in the guilty party) have no concept of design. They think that just b/c Boston or Rotterdam have made icons out of similar bridges, the same will happen here? Hello, you've missed the boat on this one! Another tally mark on that list... There is also no regard for the city. The fwy. is a tool of the city--the city is NOT a tool of fwys. Why does the city have to be subordinate to a concrete and steel monstrosity? This whole thing really pisses me off! Sorry.

Standard Bldg. is H-O-T!

Just as we're advocating with Regionalism in Cleveland, the Great Lakes/Rustbelt region can benefit from being connected in many ways. This makes sense. It's not a revolutionary concept--and I hope it's not made out to be something of that sort because people will then want "studies" to prove the feasibility which will in turn lead to some watered-down, dumb version of the original plan :x. It just makes sense and not undertaking a project of this sort casts a dark shadow of incompetence over the region. What do we prove by choosing Interstate as our only mode of transportation?

Well obviously the current Amtrak service between Chicago and Cleveland is far from sufficient. It would have to be similar to the French TGV. 2 hour ride +/- between the two cities. St. Louis isn't that much closer to Chicago than Cleveland (+/- 50 miles further) either. Again this is all hypothetical but Cleveland would have an advantage over Indy since we will hopefully have expanded domestic and int'l air service during the next 10 years. Also, it's quite convenient that I-76, 80 and 90 run through the Greater Cleveland area. Anyways, not to get ahead of ourselves but if Chicago lands the games, there will defintely be some pieces of the pie up for grab and hopefully we get a piece or two. We have enough work to do here in Cleveland so that in 2025, no one will laugh when they hear about Cleveland's Olympic bid for 2036! :wink: Hey, that'd be our 240th Birthday too!

By the way, has anyone looked at the Toronto Waterfront Competition entries? Very cool! I know Cleveland has a scheme it looks more like a masterplan. Hopefully there can be competitions to develop components of the plan b/c it'd be a shame to one firm design the entire thing. It would be very redundant and not living up to its full potential. Oh, and I emailed West 8 the info about the CLE Design Comp. a couple months ago. Wouldn't it be cool if a couple of their guys entered as individuals? They should definetly be on the team if/when any Group Plan Mall projects including a train station or con. center surface.

Personally, I'm in favor of keeping BKE if and only if it is completely renovated/expanded into an attractive airport--both aesthetically and from business standpoint. If we're going to dedicate lakefront space to an airport, we better make it worth our while! CLE's proximity to downtown and central location strengthens the argument for expanding/rebuilding the airport in its current location. BKE can serve as Cleveland's MDW while CLE is more of an ORD. Again, in a perfect world, this may be the case? Keeping BKE as this private travel airport is wasting the prime space along the lake. If it were to be kept/expanded, there could be restrictions placed on flights to accommodate a future waterfront population. I don't know how many of you have been to Amsterdam but their waterfront is something to investigate. The city center's waterfront is not like Chicago's--who has miles and miles of green space. Instead, in Amsterdam, the urban fabric rolls right up to the seawall. In may places, there isn't even a railing. The diff. between Cleveland's and Amsterdam's urban occupation of the waterfront is that people can actually use the waterfront as piece of infrastructure. Tram lines, bikes, cars, pedestrians, in addition to residential bldgs, the train station, and industry occupy the shore making the area very active and utilized to it's full potential. When my studio was there a few weeks ago, we were riding bikes and I could totally imagine a similar situation where BKE is right now. We shouldn't only think of lakefront OR riverfront access as completely green, because a combination may make for a more dynamic, more "Cleveland" solution. Emphasize the lakefront by deemphasizing it (in a good way--not like it is now). Chicago pushed all of its industries to the south side of the city and Indiana. We have our industry adjacent to downtown and maybe this can justify a hybrid green/gray approach to the lakefront.

If Chicago lands these games, I hope Cleveland takes FULL advantage of having the games a 'few blocks away'! Just think, just about EVERY project being discussed on this forum has projected completion dates within a few years of 2016 (the Innerbelt may make things interesting...). Currently, we can hold our own and provide visitors with a wealth of things to see and do in the city but by 2016, hopefully the rest of the country /world will see that too and make a quick stop in the city before heading over to Chicago. Maybe new rail service will allow people to travel to Chicago in a couple hours? That'd be great. They can save a ton of money staying in hotels in Cleveland and board the train each day attend the games/ceremonies. Hell, it will take 2 hours to drive in from Ohare of Midway so it's not like we're asking too much! What can also help promote Cleveland is if/when CLE is expanded and we see many more transcon and transoceanic flights. I helped volunteer at the Intl Children's Games a few years ago and a few int'l guests said how they wish they could have had a n/s flight or 1-stop flight. This will only set the stay for the games that come here in 2036! (Forget my screenname, 36/40 seems more realistic--as long as earth is still here!) Let's not forget Cincy tried to bid the games in 2012. We stand a very legit chance! The target date is really 2023-ish since we'll be trying to get things together for the USOC and IOC. ABOUT 15 YEARS AWAY!!!!! :clap:

First of all, I understand that the dynamics of a city and region are more complex than one man pushing a red button to accomplish things. It was a joke but I know everyone here would welcome Richard with wide open arms. Daley's speech to the city today regarding Chicago's 2016 bid was quite moving. To think, he had the nerve to say Chicago's been through it's share of problems...(Again, joking) I've never said Chicago to be the "Land flowing with milk and honey" but the river isn't the only thing in the city that's greener. Just for some clarification, Meig's Field was turned into a park in a very short span! Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but a span unfathomable in Cleveland. Now, it's a green peninsula with trails and wild flowers. The terminal still stands but I doubt for long. With the exception of the bldg. you would never know an airport occupied the site. I think Daley closed it during my 2nd or 3rd year @ IIT? 2-3 years for this to happen. Will Burke be green by 2015? The El sucks, too. It isn't as extensive as it should be and 9 times out of 10, you better give yourself at least 2 hrs to get to ORD on the blue line from the Loop b/c it's always stopping due to "construction"-or deconstruction!!! :whip: Sure they're renovating some lines on the Northside but the city and IDOT are in the process of reconstructing the Dan Ryan whose cost dwarfs the Innerbelt's projected price tag. It's too bad they won't extend service to McCormick Place, ORD (express), and/or U. of Chicago on the El but w/e... Even though LSD is 8-10 lanes wide, at least you can ride/walk/run along the shore for +/- 20 miles and access the lakefront every 1/4 mile. The mentality that someone may be anti-Cleveland because of references made to what other cities are doing is why projects like the Innerbelt, Shoreway, and whatever else are one big clusterf*ck. Personally, just because my year round zip isn't 441-- doesn't mean I can't point out faults in CLE or better yet, some case studies in other cities. Staring at a problem, convincing yourself that it isn't "that bad" is why money is thrown away on projects that have different outcomes than the original intention. I believe that Cleveland has a wealth of potential to position itself as major player in nat'l and int'l affairs in the near and distant future--in addition to providing an exceptional quality of life to its citizens. I also believe that we won't reach that position if we keep blinders on. Mind you, I am not and will not be sitting on some couch in Parma or Brunswick preaching about how the devil lives in Cleveland. Come on. The young, fresh blood is only good for everyone. As we've seen with our leaders, you can't expect things to change if the same group of people go back and forth over issues, disregarding anyone from the "outside" who voices some concern. And from what's happened and what's happening in certain arenas, we should really question the patriarchs.

:-o There's a group of us (Murray Hill/Mov2Ohio) ?!?!?! :clap: Hopefully we all can get together at the June 2nd UO Meet?! Maybe UO can be the new mafia and turn things around the way the Daley's have transformed Chicago. They have that city in the palm of their hands. At the click of a button, it's done! Anyways, I look forward to meeting you guys! Good luck finishing up the semester (or quarter, depending where you go to school!)

Call me crazy but while we're at it, let's demolish a few (thousand) "ugly" Clevelanders!!! :shoot: They're the real asbestos problem! :whip:

Le Oui Oui is considered one of Cleveland's gayest restaurants? lol! I didn't think anyone considered that place anything, except myself! I love that place! If architecture/etc. falls through for me, I'm opening up a French patisserie/boulangerie!

Sweet Jesus what's wrong with our Motherland?! HONESTLY! These morons that b*tch about everything that's wrong with Cleveland and Ohio are the reason that things aren't as good as they should be! We are trapped in this time warp and it's NO WONDER why so many young professionals choose to relocate somewhere else-anywhere else that appears to be progressive. Retail isn't the most important thing but why do we get everything years or even decades later than other places? God, Ikea isn't a necessity but we made a huge deal about it possibly coming here. Metro Paris has about 4-5 Ikeas! I'm sure you could drive 1 hr in each direction and find on in California. How long did it take to get Sephora? Crate and Barrel? The entire metro area had 1 Aldo (2 now?...)?! Come on... Let's not forget the 1 Whole Foods in the burbs too! These aren't the defining pieces of city but a lack of these basic things and people begin to wonder! And these are crappy, watered down, suburban style stores too! The hoopla for Filene's was rather pathetic, too. Come on people! It makes you wonder how we will one day turn the switch and wake up with some credible places downtown. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be pesimistic, I'm not one of them but it's things like the Innerbelt, rapid transit, the Shoreway, waterfront development, downtown, schoosl... GOD! Sorry for the rant but it's so annoying living in Chicago and then reading the petty sh*t that goes on in Cleveland. Chicago was just award the US bid for the 2016 games...Well there's NO reason we can't be a viable canidate for the 2036-40 games (if our world is still aroun) except for a handful of individuals that need to shipped to Siberia. :shoot: I know that I don't need to complain to you all--I'm preaching to the choir here, but what the hell! I want to come back Home and help make things better. I know better days lie ahead for Cleveland and her people. Why was Cleveland what it was +/-60 years ago? There are only a few ingredients into making a very vibrant and efficient city. Everything else is bullsh*t that only dillutes the valuable components. I'm a fan of analogies and here's my latest. Take a little cup of espresso that you might drink in a cafe in Paris. It's so simple yet so amazingly delicious. Then you have our crappy coffee. We try to make things so quick and simple yet in the end, we destroy what is truely precious--what is to be desired. Or we overload it with syrups and crap--but in the end, it's the same crappy coffee. We beat around the bush and get nowhere. God, think of our potential! We can be the medical capital of the world, there's the biotech potential, too. We also can be innovators when it comes to alternative energy. We have the lake and it's wind/water. We're lucky to be an older/denser city which is a plus in transforming the city into a city of the future--the opposite future of $8.00/gas that Dallas and Phoenix can entertain. What are we waiting for?! Again, this is a rhetorical question and not aimed at anyone on UO, but I needed to vent! I think we all want to ask our "leaders" the same questions! "What are you smoking? Because I DON'T want any of that!" Please don't take me as a Debbie Downer. I am coming home after 5 years of college in Chicago. I do love Cleveland. Just not a lot of her people.

I want to come again! Enjoyed the Summer '06 Meet! My sis, uncle, and myself went to GLB for the December meet but we I couldn't find anyone! I was there 30 min. after we said it'd 'begin'. Anyways... 1 more month and I'm out of here!

Stunning! SunBelt, Kiss Ohio's @ss! Been as far east as Athens, as far west at Hawaii, but never down the road to Cincy! I need to go there when I come home!

Those overpasses could be our Ponto Rialto with Subways, McDonalds, DunkinDonuts, Cingulars, Starbucks, etc!!!!! :lol:

I can reply to the previous comment about Chicago's Red Line since I live right near it and use it rather frequently. I-90/94 in Chicago is 2x as wide as I-90 in Cleveland, making a median rail line in Cleveland less intimidating than than in Chicago. From what I remember back home in Cleveland, the neighborhoods adjacent to I-90 are in much better shape than neighborhoods along the Dan Ryan--it's ghetto galore for most of it. The scale of Cleveland may be more conducive in attracting passengers from nearby neighborhoods and integrating itself into the community instead of appearing as a huge gouge in the fabric as it does in Chicago. I've also thought it'd be a good idea whenever I'm home to add a rail line. Orange Line sounds good huh? I know KJP has a very good plan for a westside commuter rail which I think is wonderful but maybe this can be a more local line? Anways, wishful thinking...

My uncle is a pilot for United and when I was little, he'd send me postcards from every city he was in at the time. He worked his way up from commuter jets to trans-pacific 747 so I have cards from Des Moines, IA to Hong Kong. It sort of stemmed from comparing those photos to Cleveland. I was also drawn to airports since they're this tiny dynamic node in our vast world that connects everyone and are many times millions of peoples ONLY impression of a city. Come on CLE!!!

Some of our friends in the photos need to visit the Metroparks soon! :wink: I should join them too!

Since this lady is a "professional" I can understand why we'd be upset with how she portrayed Cleveland-this urban wasteland in a continuous downward spiral. Lack of research indeed! However, there's a lot of "truth" to what she said and to those passing through our great city (downtown especially), this is sadly the impression. Without knowing anything about the current and/or planned projects, things may look a bit grim. She should have researched and placed her thoughts in an accurate context but she didn't. And to some passer-bys, they don't have time to go beneath the surface. AND, if they're not urban enthusiasts like ourselves, they won't read into the city any deeper. We can say "w/e" and "forget them" but they're $ spending humans, too. Oh, and I hate when weather is a part of any city's pros/cons because clearly there are great cities throughout the world with completely different climates. :x I'm sorry but a gray day in Chicago, New York, London or Paris is MUCH different than a gray day in Cleveland. People, storefronts, taxis, etc. add much color to a cityscape and can make the grayest day very vibrant. Enough with WEATHER! Why do we blame things we can't control?! :wtf: It's annoying reading this article because everything she criticizes seems to be on the 3-5-7-10 year path to completion/revival. Even ECP's 2008 completion date??? will take a few years AT LEAST to creating a pulsating streetscape, let alone a Michigan Ave or Rivoli. That'd be nice... Trees takes decades to reach maturity, but if you don't water the seed-hell even plant it, NOTHING will grow. Oh, and if we can't take criticism from someone who seems to care for the city (DaninDC), why the hell should we take it from someone who could give two sh*ts about what goes on in Cleveland? Let's give the guy a break. The truth hurts sometimes and just because his zip code isn't 441_ _, doesn't mean he can only say things that smell like roses. Outside views are essential. Without contrast, against what would we measure our city? :wtf: Let's not kid ourselves-while we're not trying to duplicate another city, we all know how Cleveland should function. We're not reinventing the wheel-we're trying VERY HARD to replace some bald and flat tires. I love everyone here and Cleveland!!! :wave:

"We all must invest in Cleveland. Invest in our people, economy, schools and quality of life so that Cleveland and our region can grow and prosper. But, just as important, if not more so, invest in Cleveland with your attitude, an attitude of greatness, an attitude of can-do. Thank you" Best part of the ENTIRE speech! This is what he really meant--If you don't like it here, leave. Otherwise, quit b*tching and get off your fat @sses to make things better! 2012 seems like the magical year huh? "5 years" is the new "tomorrow"...

Can we demolish these owners too? Honestly, push them into the river! :shoot:

So is that a good thing for me, especially since I graduate with my B of Arch in 10 weeks?!?!?! ALMOST THERE!

Remarking on Chicago's pace for 100+ 500 footers: It's ironic but personally, I feel uninspired by living in Chicago and I would NEVER want to practice architecture in this city. The same reason that I wanted to go to school in Chicago is the same reason that I do not want to work here. There's a lot of construction going on and there's a rich architectural history but lately it's become the skyscraper McMansion capital of the world. You look in the real estate section of the Tribune and it's page after page of the same in-bred condo tower. It's hard to believe that anyone is in the business to make a building of some substance and positive, substantial effect on the neighborhood in which it is located. Don't get me wrong, Chicago is a great city, but a greener pasture lurks (Not literally but I guess we can infer a little pun on Cle :-P) I don't want to seem like I have this huge ego but honestly, much more thought has to go into something being built in Cleveland. I don't want to be an architect in Cleveland just so I'm noticed more than in another city. That has nothing to do with my career path. Critical thought has to go into projects back home-which at times may slow things down and ironically dilute original ideas-because each individual project will have a greater impact on the surrounding area. With that said, I hope that the WHD especially-since there haven't been any renderings like the flats or ave. dist-does not settle for something mediocre. Sure, there's definetly a dozen buildings in Chicago's skyline that would beef up our own, but when the time comes that something TALL is built, I hope that just because it's 500 ft or w/e, we don't settle for anything. I didn't mean to get off subject that much but I was recently looking through the Tribune and was really annoyed with what I saw. Our city has what it takes. I honestly think there's a brighter future.

i'm planning to move back to Cleveland in a few months after I graduate and I'm interested in both sides of the city. I just had a comment/question to post. It's quite obvious that Chicago moves at a much faster pace than Cleveland which can be very frustrating for us at times. It's like projects in Chicago are of the Jello-No Bake Cheesecake type while in Cleveland, we have to milk the cows and make our own cream cheese, in addition to waiting for the chickens to lay the eggs and taking vanilla bean to make our own extract. -Gotta love Cleveland! Anyways, the slower pace of Cleveland is perhaps allowing for a regentrification of its neighborhoods at a fairer pace. I think OC and Tremont show it the best. There are $50,000 houses not too far from $500,000 houses and there are diverse crowds of people walking the streets. When I worked at Bier Markt this summer and winter break, it seemed to jump out at me. Renewal of the inner city isn't a bad thing. When this type of thing takes place over night, then there might be some ethical questions to answer but as far as Cleveland goes (at least what I see), I think it allows for the "locals" to adjust at a more comfortable pace than in other cities. I don't know the dynamics of social housing and things of that nature but creating spaces that improve and heal the mindset of the less-fortunate (projects that don't look the death sentences on State St.) might allow for a the most ethical/equal approach to the renewal of the inner city. Instead of placing people in a buidling that is meant to stick out like a sore thumb, why can't they live in something that is part of the neighborhood-physically and psychologically. Isn't that what that Hope project was attemping to accomplish? Back on subject... I can't wait to graduate and I think living in Cleveland will be fun. I do want to go to grad school abroad and work abroad as well, but as that saying goes, "they're not going to think that someone of their own kind is the prophet"...Someone told me that once and I know I totally butchered the quote but you all get the idea. Oh, and can't we pay off Daly to lose his election and pay him A LOT of $$$ to be our mayor for a couple terms?! Please God PLEASE!

3231, What Target in downtown Chicago? The closest one I can think of is the one on Roosevelt-south of the Loop. There's no way that Target is doing poorly?...