cle2032

the only thing i don't like about that skyline collage is that all of those building have a "corporate" feel. None of the building read as residential. I'm just being picky but cool "vision" nonetheless! :wink:

to each their own... Personally I think that the building and landscaping has pushed the Cleveland design envelope more than anything we've seen in a long time (ok that's not saying much but still...). It's different and assertive and just because it's ignorant of an ignorant existing landscape doesn't mean it's bad. For $3/4 billion, this complex better dominate something! The Clinic is making very bold and reverred statements with the UAE facilities--there's no reason why the home base has to be "safe". If the Clinic continues to develop at this pace, this modern approach will perhaps lead to more unique, architecturally significant, and urban friendly buildings. As far as the "boulevard" designation goes, the VAST majority of avenues and boulevards in this city are not really such...

lima?

this place gives me the chills!

keeeping the current site makes a covered Browns Stadium more conceivable and feasible, right?

you know what I mean! :wink: these bitter attitudes do more harm to the city than most physical "mistakes". I love beer, GLBC, and CLE! :-D

reading posts on cle.com makes me want to vomit! It's hard to believe that there are so many people out there whose perception is ridiculously F'ed up! And based on some of the usernames, one can only imagine the scum that they are--taking up space and not lifting one finger to help make CLE/NEO a better place. truly a shame and bigger embarrassment for Cleveland than a burning river...

when in the hell was there traffic on that bridge?! Do you mean gridlock from W.20 to Ontario?!

almost like '05!... :| As long as either Chicago team doesn't make it to the WS, let alone win it, I'll be happy!

just an interesting thought... 10.5 games out of first with 30 games to go... 6 more games v.s. Chicago...6 wins=4.5 games out of first with 24 more games to gain ground 4 more games v.s. Boston... 3 more games v.s. Minnesota... Chicago plays Boston this weekend... Have stranger things happened? :? Probably not! Go Tribe! Gotta love Cleveland sports and the perpetual glimmer of hope that usually stabs you from behind!

Ok, so clvndr may have repeated some things, paraphrased/editorialized some thoughts, used rhetoric but if we really look at what he/she is trying to say, I think he/she has some very valid points. Point 1. If anyone in the PD dared to mention the wasteful nature of the WFL, we would have built a guillotine on the southwest quadrant of Public Square. It's not wasted $$$, it's wasted opportunities by those few, privelaged individuals capable of instantly provoking some sort of change in the city. Unless they think a meandering, narrow apartment complex could have occupied the WFL rails, a "better use" for land is as rhetorical as the "aggressive and innovative" attitude towards reprogramming the current CC for which clvndr was criticized unfairly. Point 2. Yeah, conceivably one could never step foot outside in Cleveland-unless their gate at CLE doesn't have a jetway. Let's be fair and demand hard facts for the way in which a convention center-with the coveted MEDICAL MART-located in a major downtown, accessible to/from an intl'l airport via rapid transit spells the demise for a city with an envied dining scene, up and coming retail tenants, world renown cultural and recreational institutions and attractions...Are there any? We're assuming that the vast majority of people-a majority in which the minority will have no effect on the growth/economic development of downtown CLE-will choose remain inside the TC complex-whether it's a one day conference or 1 week conference. We're assuming that the shopping amenities will suffice in that there will be no need for other options on downtown's streets. Yes ,that means that I will NEVER be able to shop along Euclid or in the WHD unless I want a pair of jeans with a dragon on the @ss or a rhinestone encrusted pimp chalice. We're assuming that we won't market all of the things Cleveland/NEO has to offer and that anything conventioneers used to do in CLE, such an influx of visitors will actually hurt our city instead of extending our network throughout the US/World--that's the benefits-long term and/or short term-of thousands of additional people spending time in Cleveland with Clevelanders. We're also assuming that any progress we've seen regarding downtown development will stop. If we're so stubborn/naive to think that a MM in the wrong place is worse than our "inadequate" convention center without a MM, than our momentum as a city/region in reclaiming the city center should be independent of any outside or BONUS forces such as conventions and more tourists. 3. Come on Clvndr, where are you renderings, site plans, hard numbers? :roll: Who on this website has room to talk about posing rhetorical/theoretical/ideological questions/statements with solid, physical material backing up his/her idea? Yes, if/when the current convention center is vacated, we need "make lemonade from our lemons"! Let's see, we've brainstormed about that before--aquarium, natatorium, Guggenheim-CLE, Louvre-CLE, IKEA, multimodal station, movie-production spaces...We could go on and on to the point of redundant/irrelevant jibberish-hey, I'm probably approaching that point right now... "Innovative and aggressive" Yes those are cute, poweful words. Let's leave it at that and not demand some thesis from clvndr for hoping we-as UOers or NEOers-take full advantage of reprogramming one of America's most under-appreciated and least utilized civic spaces. Again, I'm all for keeping the convention center where it is and redeveloping the Group Plan. I think it's the best solution that offers the most potential for the city of Cleveland to grow. But, if the TC site is inevitable, why not try to look at the bright side of things? What do we stand to gain? What spin-off development opportunities may happen? Hell, conventions in Cleveland during Dec-Mar may be more appealling with the TC site. I think that "off-season" tourists to Cleveland will be a good thing-regardless. With everything else happening in the city, I'd like to think all of the non-MM/CC visitors will brings lots of good fortune to the city as the many CC/MM independent projects (FEB, WHD, Ave, Healthline, PHS) and world-class UC will attracts more and more tourists each year.

it's not ahead of its time, we're behind. We're a reactive city, not proactive. Give 50% and expect 100%...Things don't work like that.

I want the CC to stay where it is but do we honestly think the conventioneers will stay in the TC complex, eat solely at the few restaurants, and not wander around the city at all? As sh*tty as people think Cleveland may be, I would like to think that people may be curious to walk around, ESPECIALLY as the new developments bring revamped streetscapes and new retail/restaurants--not to mention the stadia and North Coast Harbor. In February, maybe a few more people may stay indoors but we can't act like we're the only city that has harsh winters and a convention center. I think it's more naive to believe people's first and last breath of Cleveland air will be at Hopkins. To think that the demise of E. 4th/WHD will be the fault of a TC CC is ridiculous. I want the CC to stay at the malls because of the great opportunities that exist to develop a great space at the heart of the city. Creating a dense/active downtown around the malls with better connections to NCH. I also don't buy the "waterfront wasting valuable waterfront property" bit either! What are those other unused acres doing? :roll: That was a very ignorant-PD-ish bash on the waterfront line.

ooh! :lol:

I love the "things change" sculptures! They're rather cynical and tell all of those naysayers to shut the F up and get over it! It's not 1950 anymore, most of the mills have closed, but things are changing for the better! With or without you! God I think they're great! :clap:

across the street from chase bank

again, we're seeing this, "It's better than nothing" attitude in this city. From city officials to lay-people, it's better than a vacant store front so let the owners do w/e they want! :whip: We've seen/heard this response in regards to RTA stations, new residential projects ranging from CSU-Avenue-FEB, airport, etc. While I'll agree to an extent, this attitude fosters an even more narrow minded, unfulfilled Cleveland. Hell, it's not like we're telling Louis Vuitton or Prada that they can't open a new flagship in the space, designed by a starchitect nonetheless, because it's too avant garde...Hell, it's not even a Cheesecake Factory (at least the name doesn't imply redneck)! All we ask is may, just maybe, we can do away with the corny columns? Again, if a Times Square/Tokyo theme is the goal, then fine...But we need at least another dozen tacky @$$ signs plastered on that building. As Euclid grows and develops, I just hope that a few of the storefronts are reoccupied by more appropriate tenant b/c I can think of a couple that are not realing their full potential--right now it's ok since there isn't much else going on but 5 years from now... Cheers to new developement on Euclid! :drunk:

I think something as simple as a CWRU College of Architecture version 2.0! We have to be one of the biggest cities in America w/o a true college of architecture (UG, Grad+). CUDC is a great resource and asset to the city but I think we could see some great things develop (tangible/intagible) if Case had a 5 year Bachelor of Arch. program.

Jimmy John's patio chairs are the same size as the tables!

/\ Galleries and boutiques always serve alcholic drinks--do they all have licenses?

I would rather have this well built white box a block away, than the crappy townhouses at the top of the hill. those things are already falling apart. Or the projects along w.25 and north of detroit...Best views of Cleveland...must be nice.

ROME? AWESOME PIC!

Got it! :wink: We may have to wait until 2048! :-o with all of these other world cities trying to land games sooner rather than later (Rio, Delhi, Dubai, Istanbul, Cape Town, etc.). No more Paris, LA, London! Paris shouldn't even be allowed to submit a bid! They do it every year!

If this was for tomorrow, I'd probably agree w/ you +/- (columbus would be last and detroit would be much higher). We're talking at least 4 more Olympiads before any of these cities have legal chance to host the games(and that's if Chicago gets 2016). A lot will change so I really don't see the point of this list.

It's all about what/where the lines serve. We could have 50 lines serving Brunswick, N. Ridgeville, and Conneaut but if they serve no real purpose, what's the use? As AmrapinVA pointed out, we have service from CLE-to Downtown and Univ. Circle. Right now there's a few "desitination" stops outside of those main two stations (OC, Shaker Square, Van Aken). There is a lot of space available around existing stations and downtown to concentrate development-Brookpark could be key as it's right near the airport. It's much cheaper extending platforms to accomodate 4-6 trains every 5 minutes vs. building new lines to service new facilities too far from the city center that will leave us with something like Athens. If we can't use the lines we currently have properly, why build new ones? I've seen Athens post Olympics and it's very desolate. That's what we see in Cincy's old bid. A quick Olympic Pop-up city that produced some cool pins and pictures but the city is in no better shape to bid another game, let alone host one than it was 8 years ago. I think Cleveland has some of the pieces and proper planning could make it blend seamlessy into city-after the games. A nice number of facilities between our pro-sport teams and local universities. Scranton Peninsula and vicinity is empty and some great planning potential exists. While we don't want acres of unused land like Athens, at the same time, it's probably at least a 20 min. train ride from the city center. Athens is also millenia old and is so dense, they didn't have the opportunities that may exist here. This is exciting-just thinking about this happening but as I said earlier, we can't build Cleveland or Cincy solely for the 2032/36/40 games! We invest in our cities to improve our lives. We've seen recent investment back in the city proper b/c of economically, environmentally, and culturally efficient reasons--not b/c we want olympics. We've realized Cleveland has a great story to tell and we can't let it whither away. We've realized we have two great natural resources and rather intact urban core to allow us to recapture the type society that can adapt and withstand the test of time. This is why we're making our cities better. If we decide 20 years from now to submit a bid, Great! If not, who cares because hopefully we'll be at a state where we and everyone else knows how great our city truely is. Boston,NYC, DC, SF, Seattle, Toronto, Buenos Aires, Madrid, etc. may NEVER host the games and it makes them no lesser a city. I think what's intriguing us about the games is the state of our cities 20-30 years from now. We know if we'd bid/host, things would be pretty good (bad always exists but you know what I mean). It takes a lot of work to get back to the "world-class" stage where Cleveland and Cincy may have once stood-we just have to do it for the right reasons. man i'm out of breath!