OC17

Not jiving with renderings on east end of garage only

Renderings look like 80% of garage; maybe they started doing eastern 1/2 first

I beg to differ that the Malls and what other cities are facing in dealing with waterfronts would not be a part of discussing Cleveland’s lakefront. The Malls discussion is part of accessing the lakefront downtown; a long-term issue in Cleveland. A bridge from Mall C to NCH is the lakefront and the Malls as a cohesive unit in “people flow” to and from the lakefront should be a part of the discussion. Objecting only to Cincinnati’s spaghetti bowl highway clusters is misplaced. Why no objection to bringing Cincinnati into the discussion at all? The spaghetti bowls are a part of Cincinnati’s waterfront problem. Otherwise, how is Cincinnati’s riverfront a part of Cleveland’s lakefront?

I prefer the current configuration over the proposed re-route through the east side, including directly cutting into University Circle. The I-490 extension to E 105/Chester is the Opportunity Corridor (a wide boulevard) which is as good as it will get with access into the CC/UC areas. Cities do have highways avoiding the city, in Cleveland it's I-271 or I-480.

It can be done, it's not impossible, I'd love to see this done not only for the crossing between lakefront and malls, but the entirety of i-90 through Cleveland. Would really get rid of an eyesore, plus we could build on them, a downtown bike trail rather than bike lanes making it a more scenic route. Do you know how much CSU would benefit from this? What other green space does CSU have besides the courtyard? Or you could build more buildings for retail and residential. MORE SPACE! Who doesn't like more space? So the Malls are dead, and there's already alot of room for change. I'm surprised there aren't shaded areas on those lawns. We're missing a massive chance to become forest city again, and to be even remotely close to Savannah, Georgia's historic parks with drooping willows over every pathway. I'm also surprised there's no stage for performances atop the Huntington center, would make an excellent small performance venue. Its outside, and even with a lawn incline like Blossom. This will bring business. In order to attract food, bars, and other small shops, you need an attraction for the area. No one just up's and says, "Yeah I'm going over to Linndale for their culture." culture of handing out unlawful speeding tickets that's for sure. Nobody goes to Linndale for the food or culture because there is none. It's only a small part of Cleveland that just wont fold. Basically the same goes with the malls. Private owned land that just wont give up and have no idea on how to improve themselves. Looking at these pics again, is there another spaghetti bowl highway mish-mosh to the east of downtown Cincinnati as well? Sure looks like it but the pics are cut-off to the east of downtown Cincinnati. I know that's I-71 running northeast but just adjacent to east end downtown looks bleak and Los Angeles like again. I guess that's the 1950s consequence of having I-71 and I-75 meshing and connecting in a CBD. That's a lot of concrete highway/s dominating Cincinnati as the CBD doesn't look that large. It looks overwhelmed and hemmed-in to the east and west by highway spaghetti-bowls.

It can be done, it's not impossible, I'd love to see this done not only for the crossing between lakefront and malls, but the entirety of i-90 through Cleveland. Would really get rid of an eyesore, plus we could build on them, a downtown bike trail rather than bike lanes making it a more scenic route. Do you know how much CSU would benefit from this? What other green space does CSU have besides the courtyard? Or you could build more buildings for retail and residential. MORE SPACE! Who doesn't like more space? So the Malls are dead, and there's already alot of room for change. I'm surprised there aren't shaded areas on those lawns. We're missing a massive chance to become forest city again, and to be even remotely close to Savannah, Georgia's historic parks with drooping willows over every pathway. I'm also surprised there's no stage for performances atop the Huntington center, would make an excellent small performance venue. Its outside, and even with a lawn incline like Blossom. This will bring business. In order to attract food, bars, and other small shops, you need an attraction for the area. No one just up's and says, "Yeah I'm going over to Linndale for their culture." culture of handing out unlawful speeding tickets that's for sure. Nobody goes to Linndale for the food or culture because there is none. It's only a small part of Cleveland that just wont fold. Basically the same goes with the malls. Private owned land that just wont give up and have no idea on how to improve themselves. "Capping'' is a trend for examples like this in Cincinnati for waterfront access but in places like D.C. where ''interior highways'' are being capped with commercial office buildings. This photo really shows how much damage highways did to Cincinnati. Not only was its riverfront access cut-off with a long and abrupt barrier wall-cutoff but that giant spaghetti bowl to the west of downtown is jaw-dropping. This is a candidate for poster child picture for urban highway damage to a city. There's no way that area west of downtown is 'cap'-able. That Los Angeles style highway mish-mash is way outsized for a Cincinnati-size city. The Cincinnati ''spaghetti-bowl'' almost, arguably does, dominate downtown Cincinnati's aerial view. The riverfront connection has potential but that's a large area to cap and will cost lots of $. The post-version pic has too many streets connecting to the riverfront. May want to cut out a street, if possible; maybe the streetcar would be used more with less roadway access to the riverfront in the capped parts.

Cleveland's Mall is still a great public-civic asset despite lackluster use. The Mall is a great walking cross-thru point in downtown Cleveland and all 3 components of the Mall are beautifu again. I would include Cleveland's Mall as a top U.S. city urban vista and enjoying the amazing architectural variety the Mall offers is reason enough to hang-around the area a bit longer than rushing through. The Mall generally should be used as the nexus to the lakefront, shifting it away from the urban highway known as E 9th Street with, Gateway anchored to the south and North Coasts Harbor to the north, and include Public Square to the southwest. Walking from say, Gateway and hopefully the nuCLEus project north along either E 4th Street or indoor via the 5th Street Arcades, to Euclid Avenue. Then either a revamped E 6th Street or The Old Arcade indoors to Superior, enter the Mall via Eastman Reading Garden or E 3rd or continue on E 6th. Mall A could use some green cover outside the main Memorial plaza, and perhaps the Drury and Marriott could step up some outdoor use on both properties, to create some reasons to hang-around a bit. This section of the Mall is also Public Square's main access as well. Mall B is a great space. The lawn is amazing but one almost doesn't want to walk on it due to its mostly pristine appearance. Maybe adding public events on Mall B (concerts, movies etc) could spark some long-term daily use. I've seen pick-up touch football games, frisbee tossing etc going on but it would be nice to see people on the lawn more. Mall C looks as if the Mall Plan wasn't completed as one expects to be able to head directly to the lakefront when approaching from the south. Instead, one hits a barrier and looks to busy E 9th Street as a way to get ''down'' or ''over there''. E 9th Street being a 6-lane urban highway with 9 automobile ingress/egress points from Lakeside to the pier parking entry point. The freeway by the water thing was done at a time when urban waterfronts were used by industry, not leisure activities. Cleveland is not unique in the ''accessing its waterfront'' issue and should play up its somewhat rare to have water-vista sunsets considering that the big east coast cities and even Chicago can't offer. Cities like Cincinnati have plans to ''cap'' its waterfront highways and Philly is currently in the early stages of capping I-95 along a section of its waterfront. Cleveland should decide on a plan for its waterfront; pedestrian bridge, platform-cap, or land bridge to name a few options. Bottom-line is something needs to be done from Mall C to North Coast Harbor. It's never too late to complete Burnham's Mall Plan.

Add in lackluster to inept Cleveland representation in Washington DC and you get -0-.

Hope the future lakefront development adds lots of parking with it otherwise. If the waterfront line is in play, loop it south through the CBD, add in a west side extension. The malls were busier when there were more office workers to sit around the old fountains. So it's more of an activity-attraction to the malls than the surrounding public buildings being the real issue. Today there is a Marriott, Hilton, Drury Lane, even the Westin hotel on or adjacent to the Malls and they're still dead zones. Not to mention the underground convention center and healthmart.

Understood about the train station, just didn't happen as it went to the Terminal Tower. The lakefront location would have been a much better location in hindsight of course and may have helped with Cleveland's long-term public transit development. Today, I wouldn't build a transit hub there. The last version of the lakefront ped bridge is the one that was supposed to go in just prior to the 2016 RNC. Since then, the project is another ''bridge in limbo''.

That's all I was referring to. You do in fact see human beings there. They are far underutilized otherwise. That was the problem with the Mall concept as part of the City Beautiful Movement; the creation of dead zones. Hopefully more residents, visitors, workers etc will make the Malls, esp. B, busier, as a summer hang-out area. More special events, concerts, even a party-in-the-park would help. A pedestrian bridge from Mall C to the lakefront will funnel more people off E 9th Street to the malls though.

Not quite. The malls are not as busy as ever in the past 50 years. What is there to do on Malls B or C? Mall A gets some attention from the Veterans Memorial but otherwise, not sure what even tourists are doing in any of these public spaces. Crossing the Malls doesn't count as use. The Hanna Fountains attracted lots of people during the day. Mall B today is a giant, sloped lawn with a garish Flame from the Senior Games plopped awkwardly on it.

Lakefront access? Crossing the ''moat'' between the city and the lakefront, the railroad tracks that E 9th Street bridges. Why bother doing anything down there since its not going to become Santa Monica Pier. Why is the Rock Hall, Great Lakes Science Center there? Why was the harbor dug-out 30 years ago? Should have just left it a parking lot for whatever version of the stadium is plunked down there. Lots of cities are working to connect to their waterfronts, Cleveland being one of them. I mean convenient walkability is so ''out'' in U.S. cities today. Obviously you have never walked or biked to Voinovich Park in the summer via E 9th Street if you think E 9th seems like a reasonable way to get to the lakefront. In a car? For sure, E 9th is a highway egress/ingress access, tossed in with additional road and parking garage access points. Again, if you've gone down there in the summer, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Voinovich Park as a non-hot spot, with lots of additional potential.

The Malls continue to struggle with attracting people; there's nothing to do there. The City Beautiful Movement, while nice on paper 100+ years ago left Cleveland with some real dead-zones, although I think today's version of the malls is the best. Having more downtown workers would help.

Wonder what the lakefront would look like 30+ years later if Progressive HQ building had gone up?

You're right, E 9th Street is a great pedestrian and cycling access the lakefront, especially on a busy summer day. Even better when heavy vehicular traffic is entering and exiting the shoreway from E 9th. It's such an attractive walkway as well. Perhaps you would see people on using Mall C if it went anywhere...like the lakefront. You would be the first person advocating that E 9th Street is as good as it gets...then again this is Cleveland so why would it want proper and safe access to the greatest asset in the State of Ohio.

Our first priority is to build a pedestrian bridge from Mall C to the lakefront. Half the city may be in turmoil from poverty yet Cleveland has employers trying to fill jobs (but that's another discussion).

Agreed. Chicago's lakefront is as well cut-off by a highway known as Lake Shore Blvd. Grant Park, until the recent Millennial Park opened, wasn't exactly a hub of activity.

Only need to turn the clock back to the late 1990s; what if First Energy stadium was never built at this location? Cleveland City Council would've voted unanimously to turn the space into a coal-fired power plant. Perhaps if a stadium wasn't built there in 1930; 1990s, not so much.

Only need to turn the clock back to the late 1990s; what if First Energy stadium was never built at this location?

Needs to come back to life and act as a prime hub and connector from Gateway to the Malls, then the pedestrian bridge to the lakefront. Walk from Gateway to either E 4th or 5th Street Arcades, then either E 6th or Old Arcade, to the Malls, vice-versa, indoor (amazing structures) or outdoor walking options.

This will really start climbing now. 2 floors at a time.

The E 6-Short Vincent corridors have so much potential. The best ''urban'' location in Cleveland, IMO. Would like to see that parking garage 1st-2nd levels converted to commercial-retail-restuarant-bar (just plop a couple decks on top to make up for lost space). The PNC side of Short Vincent (south) is awful though from Garfield Bldg to corner of E 9th, but there's the old Roxy space there (that replaced the original-notorious Roxy location), the north side of Vincent has better full-block potential. The south side of Vincent could use some streetscape to make up for its otherwise dreary gap as mentioned. This area could and should become another hub of downtown activity, all premised on old faithful dive bar Moriarity's staying in-place and intact. The Beacon is the building that will fully ''enclose'' this great area.

Not to go on here, but Oklahoma City was in '95. If the government really wanted to protect its buildings, it would have moved on it a lot sooner. It's 23 years after OKC bombing and we're still waiting for this building to be ''protected''. This Celebrezze Bldg fiasco was a ''green'' project using federal stimulus $ that added a security measure to it while they were at it. No ''green'' stimulus $$, no project at all.

A legacy of government waste. totally. the entire point of trying to build a "bomb proof" building on a busy downtown corner is ludacris. Put the stupid thing in the suburbs or off the main grid someplace over by E22nd or something. What they've done now is spent $100 million to put a dumb glass enclosure on a building that may reduce energy expenses. Replacing windows with double pane like they did on the AECOM tower might've been about 1/100th the cost Agree, that's what balustrades are for, to prevent car/truck bomb from driving into the building.