cle_guy90

Right on topic. 1500 new jobs going to the Avon Lake plant! Huge get for the local economy! https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/11/fords-900-million-investment-in-avon-lake-plant-will-create-1500-jobs-mayor-says.html

O I agree! But if the plan is not as elaborate the bond issue can be smaller which means more of the tax payers dollar left. They cannot movie it willy nilly but at the same time they need to spend it wisely. For instance, maybe $.20 of the sales tax goes to a bond for the new courthouse which would open up $.05 in sales tax to go towards the RTA. I know one of the funding options for the RTA is to raise taxes but if we raise taxes again I believe it will have an adverse affect on how many people choose to stay in Cuyahoga verses moving to a Brunswick, North Olmsted, Hudson or other surrounding county suburbs. I'd prefer to have an economical yet attractive justice complex versus an extravagant and costly one.

Let's also remember that these are county tax dollars so the more money that is used for this the new courthouse complex the less money there will be for other projects and services (thinking the RTA rail replacement). I want it to be attractive yet economical.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/10/ppg-adds-research-lab-at-cleveland-coatings-plant-with-eye-toward-electric-driverless-vehicles.html Interesting and relevant quote on why PPG has chosen to invest so much in Cleveland including just recently adding a research lab. “There are synergies with our existing facilities. But beyond that, Cleveland has a very strong technical community,” said Gary Bennett. IMO the knowledge and the experience alone in this region was reason enough for Sherwin Williams to never truly consider leaving Cleveland.

@KJP can you elaborate what you meant in the other thread (random development) when you said SHW would have 1500 jobs now and up to 2800 in the future. Where are these jobs coming from initially and where will they come from in the future? I thought immediately there was going to be 6k meaning 2.7 would be new (about 1.1 from within the region but not downtown).

I think what is encouraging about the job creation tax credit that three Cleveland companies received is not the number of jobs created (although 447 is great), but the total payroll the jobs will bring in (41.6 million or ~93k per job). https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/three-cleveland-companies-receive-state-tax-credits-new-projects

@KJP any word on if the transformational tax credit would make the office component of this project doable? I feel like the project would fit the criteria needed for the credit.

Is this any different that what KJP reported with the JC where everything has been smoothed over?

As we all learned these numbers can drastically change but nonetheless they are positive all around from employment (staying over 1mil and up 10,000 YOY) to total jobs (over 1.4% or 15,000 added). One surprising number is the jobs added in the professional sector. August showed an increase of 7,000 jobs and the preliminary for September shows an increase of 9,000 jobs (5.7%). Does anyone have any idea where this massive increase would be stemming from? https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/oh_cleveland_msa.htm

While I don’t agree fully with this, I definitely appreciate your perspective! Definitely some things to think about!

Okay so we have two options. 1) We can believe KJP who has given an insane amount of details on who's involved, where it's happening, when things went out/the dates of the process, and what's been going on behind the scenes. He has been ahead of every mainstream news source on this issue time and time again. 2) We can worry about this article that contains little specific details, things we've heard before, and speculative quotes like "I think they feel very constrained in Cleveland. It's a very tight labor market. I just think it's time for a change. And this is a company that really has prioritized international sales." I'm not worried.

I know this would cost a decent amount more but if they would just make that parking garage two stories higher and have it all be covered parking then I'd be good with this design even though i still wouldn't love all the parking that'd still be remaining. Does anyone know if the parking structure is being built such that a couple levels could be added on on if they chose to do so later to add more buildings in the complex?

@KJP Do you know if the headquarters leave room to grow? It would be surprising for them to build a headquarters that didn’t at least provide room for growth of 500-1k employees. Or maybe with the campus mindset and depending on the site they are thinking they can always add buildings to it?

Another great article! A question I have is can the space accommodate more than 6000 employees? Doing some rough estimates, let's say that the 350,000ft R&D center holds 600 employees (I'm assuming it'd be more than that but let's go low just in case), that means there is still 1.45million sqft for 5400 employees which would be about 269 sqft per employee. Right now companies are trending towards more open concepts and less square feet per person. From what I've read it is moving closer to 150 to 175sqft/person. Even with an additional 30% sqft for common areas and choosing the higher number (175sqft) that still only gets you to 228 sqft needed per person which is at 85% of what they are actually building.

Why are we still debating the merit of the new home when it’s been said by multiple people with great sources that they aren’t going anywhere? The home is great news for reasons that people pointed out but regardless that’s not the main reason why people are saying they are staying.

The article says that current plans include 477 parking spaces which amount to 1.5 per unit and the committee asked them to study a two story parking garage. All that to say is I don’t think the design is much better given all those parking spaces but I hope I’m wrong.

The only thing I can think of is you never know what’s going on behind the scenes. Just yesterday the Tower City remodel was proposed which is also a Bedrock project in terms of investment. Maybe there was some back door dealings going on but I’m just totally speculating.

So I just did some quick research on this and it depends on who you talk to and how they are drawing data. For instance, realtor.com clumps townhomes and condos together. I was always under the assumption that rich Exner did that as well but I could be wrong. My point in saying that it was 161 homes was that it was a large enough sample that, even if the 4 rockport townhomes were included, it would not skew the data. Moreover, while it is not perfect and a couple years of data is better, I think 161 is indicative enough to show that the side of town is definitely trending in a healthy direction.

The article says there were 161 sales on the Eastern Side for that median price so it wasn't a small sample and these were single family homes so the rockport units would not even be included in the data.

I wonder if that many people will really want to live there with most amenities of downtown being a decent walk away (e.g. Heinen's and East Fourth would both be over a mile and Public square would be just under). I know if I was in the area and able to live downtown I would easily choose a place on Euclid over a place in that development. But who knows maybe for some just being on the lake and having some basic amenities is enough. That playground may also be a bigger draw than I'm thinking as well.

Great article!! One minor correction is Harbor Verandas is 16 apartments not 8. https://www.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/erry-2018/12/cc18ff039b2649/tour-the-luxury-harbor-veranda.html

Since you appear to be somewhat close to the situation what do you have any gauge as to which way you think the company is leaning? Obviously it'd be an educated guess.

To be fair CleFan98 has said previously in what capacity his source works if it is the same source and it’s pretty legit.

I could be wrong but I actually think it's a good sign for them staying. If I was an employee and didn't want to leave Cleveland I would start looking for a new job now. There would be hundreds of employees that would be doing that. Then once they get a new job, I'd be a lot harder to recruit someone for that position because they'd be saying come to Cleveland for a year or two or three and then be prepared to move.

Just to be clear, you are saying they've already made their final decision on their new location?