Mwd711

There's one left at Circle Centre. Carson Pirie Scott. It takes up part of the old L.S. Ayers store.

^ You can add Atlanta to the list without one. They have department stores, but none in the Central Business District. Also, Washington DC and Indianapolis have department stores downtown. Salt Lake City has 2 new stores (Macy's, Nordstrom) at their City Creek development. Neither is in the traditional sense (its part of a quasi-lifestyle center) but they are in the CBD.

This is probably getting too off topic but even in cities that still have traditional downtown department stores, they have seen stores close. Pittsburgh is mentioned but Macy's is the only surviving one and its size been cut down year after year. Nordstrom left Indy even though the city built a new store for them at no cost. KC still has Halls but that's a local store with ties to Hallmark. The Boston Store in Milwaukee is hanging on but Field's left decades ago and the mall its a part of is in terrible shape. At least, in the midwest, there's very few left. Even comeback downtowns like Baltimore lack a true traditional department store. Unless you count off price places like Burlington, Ross, etc. most downtowns seem to be lucky to have one department store left, let alone multiples. And I don't see how subsidies makes a difference as various cities have done that and they still see stores go under. Techincally, Tower City was heavily subsidized but the place still struggled long term and ended up losing its anchor. I don't think subsidies alone can save downtown malls and stores.

^^ Urban sprawl? In Mentor? We aren't talking about Bainbridge Twp. here. Much of Mentor was fully developed by 1980 including this shopping center and its surrounding neighborhood. One of the knocks on this shopping center is that its fairly ugly. Thats partly because of age. It was built in the late 70's/early 80s and has the ugly architecture to prove it. As far as locations go, I find it interesting that jam thinks that a Mentor location is somehow going to cannibalize the CH Melt. Yet, jam also advocates putting locations in the city limits of Cleveland. Wouldn't it be much more likely that a UC or Collinwood location would cannibalize the CH location than one way out in Mentor? Mentor isn't exactly next door and that's the point. If the CH Melt can't survive and thrive because of a restaurant in Mentor (over 30 minutes away), then it says to me that CH is either a bad location or Melt isn't as exciting as a concept as first thought. And just to finalize on image, how many people here realize that Luchita's had a location in Mentor for years? And it was in a rather sprawl-like part of the city (unlike Points East) in a shopping center with Heinens and down the road from a Super Kmart. Before the family decided to shut down their "satellite" locations, that location thrived and co-existed with Shaker Square for years. Today, Aladdin's Eatery is located there. Another local chain that started out in urban areas (Lakewood, Cleveland Hts) and has spread out across the burbs while also being in fairly urban business districts around the country. Do you consider Aladdin's the equivalent of Applebee's? I highly doubt it. Its a local company that has a diverse range of locations. There's no reason Melt can't do the same thing and thrive just like Aladdin's has.

What makes you think the average customer cares that its in a strip mall? It may matter to a small group of people but the average customer wants good service and good food. As long as Melt delivers on that, the public will come. Its not like Mentor is in the sticks and has no successful restaurants. I prefer urban locations but its hardly a requirement when I'm searching out a place to eat. This shopping center is active, has plenty of tenants. In that way, its nothing like where Bar Symon was as that shopping center lacked an anchor tenant. Is Points East pretty? No. But its hardly a bombed out desolate shopping center. As far as hurting his reputation, I don't think anybody feels like Dante's reputation has been sullied since he opened a place in Strongsville. And judging by the crowds at Michael Symon's places, his rep hasn't been hurt either as he's expanded. Same goes for Paul Minnillo who flat out left the city for Moreland Hills and seems to be thriving at Flour. A comparable cult like chain (granted, its now on a national scale) is Chipotle. When Chipotle was first starting out, it too was largely in hipper, urban areas and college neighborhoods. Today, they are nearly on every corner. It doesn't look like their business has declined any since they went more "suburban" and both their older and newer locations are booming. You could say the same for Starbucks' image. I just don't think that thought goes through the minds of most diners.

What makes anyone think they can just close off TC for a casino? For one thing, there's a public rail station and public walkway that the general public must have access to. Are they gonna make it over 21 only? I'm not sure how that would even be legal. There would be all kinds of logistical problems dealing with that. Not to mention, the sheer amount of space that TC covers. That's a massive square footage, much larger than a casino would even need. There's also the issue that some of it is in a historical building. And, as others mentioned, I'm not sure its location is even allowed per the casino amendment. I'm not sure how economically feasible it would be to deal with those headaches when you can start next door with a clean slate. True, the site behind TC has its issue toos but I don't see how it would make sense to entirely gut TC just to build new retail later on. You could take part of TC and covert it, but I don't see how or why you'd take the entire thing for slots and tables.

Between this and smoking, it certainly drags down the Horseshoe. Another problem is that the Horseshoe's payout is somewhat low - 88 percent. Most casinos run above 90 percent. If word gets around that the slots are tight, that could be an issue in drawing in new gamblers. Interestingly, Erie's Presque Isle Downs and the Horseshoe pretty much tied in slots revenue for the month of June. The difference was that PI paid out better and the Horseshoe is killing them at the tables - at $25 a table and triple the number of tables, that certainly helps too. The June PA table numbers aren't out yet but there's no way PI will come close. The Shoe had over $7 million. PI will be lucky to hit $2 million. (http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012307119897) Adding amenities will help draw new gamblers too. I'm still curious to see what happens to the Shoe once local racinos pop up. That may factor into just how large and elaborate they decide to do Phase 2.

^ I think most people forget who Gilbert has as partners. Matt Cullen was instrumental in redoing the RenCen and adding new retail to it. Nate Forbes controls Forbes Co. which owns Somerset Collection among other upscale malls. They are also heavily involved in adding retail spaces in downtown Detroit. The CityLoft pop up store concept is their child. The "fresh and vigorous management" team is already there. They have plenty of retail in their backgrounds. They don't need to hire anyone.

^ Its completely weather related. You're experiencing what us radio geeks call "Tropo". When the atmosphere is just right, you can get stations booming in as a local even though its signal is hundreds of miles away. It is most noticeable in the spring and summer. This past week saw one of the biggest tropo events in years around here. In some cases, it causes the farther away signal like CIMX to overwhelm a local signal - WJCU, hence you get static and the two signals bleeding over each other.

^ The Cadillac Ranch locations that Granite City didn't buy are not allowed to use the CR trademark. Granite City wants control over their concepts instead of having license and franchise agreements.

^ Indeed, Stapleton is a planned community, not a true lifestyle center. However, there are elements of lifestyle centers within Stapleton. Stapleton is more like a Reston or Summerlin with multiple styles of development and planning within its boundaries. I'm not sure I'd say FCE is all in with lifestyle centers or planned communities. The bulk of their new developments seem to be mixed use. The Yards and Waterfront in D.C. are good examples of this. That said, the sheer size of Stapleton trumps everything they are doing at the moment.

I think moving the Cinematheque into the mayfield is a good idea but I question how they could pull it off. It would probably take a fortune to renovate and run it. Their current location has multiple uses, as the auditorium is used for speeches, lectures and presentations during the week and daytime. The Cinematheque isn't a daily operation and I'm not sure there's interest at the CIA to make it one let alone the demand to do it and have it be cost-efficient. I'd rather see it turned into a community theater doing plays and musicals. In the end, I doubt Terry Tarantino (I believe he still owns the place but I could be wrong) would donate the place or give the CIA a good deal out of the goodness of his heart. I know Tarantino had proposed a restaurant in there, that runs classic Italian films and has opera performances while you eat but he's been talking about that for decades. I know someone who was a tenant of his and he feels like Tarantino is all talk especially when it comes to the theater. I think the Mayfield may sit as long as its in his hands, the Corbos or whomever has it these days.

^ You can gamble anywhere without your card. But you should always play with a card to get future comps, offers, etc. And casinos like when you use your card since they can track your spending habits. Clefan98 has it correct that pit bosses will go get you a card if you're playing the tables. They will then rate your play at the table which is how you earn points there. Of course, in your particular case, it wouldn't have worked since the systems went down and there was no way to create new cards. I too have noticed that the TC entrance is now only for high rollers (I believe its diamond, platinum and silver stars only and maybe this is only during certain hours) and I am completely confused by that. Its a bit of a hassle to gamble, go walk into TC to eat, etc, and then have to walk back outside if you want to play some more even though there are entrances sitting there, barely being used.

^ I don't think Jeni's has much to worry about since they don't have a place anywhere near Tremont. The same can't be said for Tremont Scoops which doesn't even make its own ice cream. I have a feeling their business will take a big hit at least for the short term.

You're thinking of 1890 at the Hyatt. They did a late night menu til 4 AM on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays. I don't believe they are doing it anymore but I could be wrong. It might be a seasonal thing. Corky & Lenny's is just screaming to be open 24 hours. It puzzles me as to why it isn't, as a deli isn't exactly staff intensive. I think rockandroller makes some good points, but short term, Horseshoe has nothing to worry about it. They don't have any local competition. Its a different story once racinos start opening up shop in the region. I'd imagine many older players will flock there just because of the easier access.

^ I agree with that. But at the same time, I'm tired of pitting suburb vs. city and vice versa. That's not good for the region either. I consider it to be NEO vs. The World. Regionalism works both ways. If a company chooses to stay here over somewhere else, or move to a burb from another region, I consider it a win. It's just not reasonable to think every major company will be in the inner core. I wish it wasn't that way but you need to play with the cards you're dealt and NEO has lost way too many companies to other regions. I don't think the area can afford to be picky about where a company chooses to locate. A local company is much better than one on its way to NC. The employees of AG and Eaton support the region as do the corporations themselves. I don't think they should be labeled as enemies because they are in the burbs. They are still important cogs. And considering what could've gone where Crocker Park now sits, I'm happy with it. It's better than some cookie cutter subdivision or strip mall/office park surrounded by concrete. That land was going to be developed. Stark wasn't gonna keep it empty to make a statement about urban sprawl.

I'm not a fan of AG moving to Westlake but I can't blame them for doing it. They have a stake in the project. Its no different than what the Wexlers have done with Easton and New Albany. Not every company wants to be in an urban area, just like not everyone wants to live in one. That's just reality. And Crocker Park is much better designed than Chagrin Highlands or some corporate campus in Independence, Mentor or Medina. I'm not sure why there's such a hate for CP. We should be encouraging more developments like it in the burbs, not slapping it down. Its not perfect, but its not some ugly large big box strip mall either. I prefer this to Avon Commons, heck I prefer it to Steelyard which outside of its location, is just another strip mall. Development in the outer burbs is pretty much inevitable, lets at least try to make it as urban as possible. I don't think CP was done perfectly but its not awful for a new urbanist lifestyle center. I've seen much worse in other areas, not to mention in our own backyard (Legacy). And I really don't get the hate for AG. Holding a grudge against a local company is silly. Many on this board are pro-regional but only if it helps the city itself. IMHO, that's not really how regionalism should work. The entire area should be supporting and encouraging each other. Cleveland and its burbs have a long ways to go on that but Westlake is part of the region and AG is a local company. Supporting a company out of KC instead of a homegrown company out of spite isn't a good idea. I don't see how that promotes the region or helps Northeast Ohio at all. The AG employees will be dining at area restaurants, going to the theater district, etc. AG is a major sponsor of the zoo, orchestra and Playhouse Square. I don't see how anyone should boycott that.

Just a note on sports books, the way the NBA deals with it is that you can't have sports betting on a team that you own. For instance, when the Maloof family owned the Palms and the Sacramento Kings, you could bet on NBA games, just not on games involving the Kings. There's now a belief that all Caesars hotels will not be allowed to take bets on the Cavs since Gilbert is a partner of theirs. But that's up to the NBA and Nevada Gaming Commission. Just a note on hotel availability, I went through about 10 different hotels and the only one I could find booked up was the Ritz. Rates did seem to be higher than normal though. I'm curious about parking rates downtown. I take the rapid in so it doesn't effect me one way or the other but how much has the price of parking jumped? I imagine on a night where you have the Indians game going, rates are going to be sky high. I'm concerned that might drive away some non-casino/sports business since we all know how parking is always the big complaint of suburbanites.

I too find that odd since Willoughby seems to be a better fit although there doesn't seem to be much in the way of vacant places in their downtown. Perhaps that was the difference. And in defense of Matt's density comment, I think he was referring to the amount of people that live in and visit Mentor. It certainly fits that criteria as it is the hub of Lake when it comes to dining and big box retail.

I'm curious as to where and when? I've only heard of them opening restaurants in Cincy and Dayton. And just to finish the hours debate, Lola closes between lunch and dinner. That's hardly uncommon because of prep, etc. Notably, Greenhouse Tavern stays open but it's always been dead when I've gone around 3.

The casinos I've been to that charge for parking use a couple different ways to do validation. One is to show your players card when exiting. They will scan the card and if you've earned enough points, you get free parking. The other is to take your parking ticket inside and scan it in a validation machine which is sorta pointless since you don't have to play at all using that method. Another possibility is to charge everyone for parking during large events downtown or during a certain time period unless you're of a certain player level or you play a certain amount on that same day. Greektown does that in Detroit as does Rivers in Pittsburgh. Rivers charges $40 for parking during Steelers games but if you earn 250 points on that day, its completely reimbursed. Greektown's structure is only for higher tier players during the AM.

Hey, didn't I predict that a few pages back? My sources come through again! :) Rocco is an awesome chef. I give the Horseshoe teams plenty of guff but I don't have any complaints about their food choices. All top notch places. I don't know if this has been officially announced yet but Bernie Moreno's Collection Auto is buying the naming rights to the welcome center and parking structure. I have no idea if that's gonna include any outdoor advertising ala the Kia Parking Center but Collection signage will be very prevalent around the gift shop and valet area.

Its a FOOD COURT. A food court and a buffet isn't gonna kill East 4th. Come on. Where did I say that it was gonna kill East 4th? I didn't. Its an attraction already and doesn't need the casino to survive and prosper. Same goes for the WHD. But if a 400 seat buffet isn't trying to keep visitors inside, then whats it doing there? That's why its there. If the skywalk is built, it will directly start right where the buffet and food court is located. That's not a coincidence. Its setup that you can gamble, get hungry, go eat and then walk through a skywalk and go home. Could they make it any easier? That doesn't sound very urban to me.

I'm not worried about college kids coming downtown and walking to the WHD. Chances are, they already do that and a new casino may bring them down there more often. I'm talking about John & Mary from Strongsville who rarely come into the city. And when they do, they park in a structure, walk to the arena/theater, and walk right out. The casino needs to help end that practice. For Cleveland's downtown to have a rebirth, it needs people like that to walk around the city and patronize the businesses. Will the hosts at the Horseshoe actively promote their dining partners or not? That's my question. You can have a bunch of dining partners but if its easier to go to the buffet or Morton's, most will do that. Can the casino get people to walk to the Chophouse instead and will it make the effort? That remains to be seen. If its done like other Caesars complexes, TR members receive discounted prices when they eat at the casino to help keep people there. Is the Horseshoe gonna do that too? If it does, that gives them an advantage. Why eat at Jake's, when I can save a few bucks by eating at Corky & Lenny's inside and earn TR points at the same time? Again, I don't doubt that the casino will be successful. I'm just wondering if its really going to be as "urban" as Gilbert likes to claim or if that's just marketing. I think phase 2 will be a better judge of that since it will have street side storefronts and restaurants. That can help change the vibe of the city and offset some of the typical casino design that keeps people locked up inside.

It will have 3 restaurants, a massive buffet and Tower City. You're forgetting that Tower City is directly attached and management there has already said that national dining chains have contacted them about leasing spaces. The bulk of casino patrons will eat at the buffet or in Tower City. It's the safe and easy thing to do for most suburbanites. Tower City sucked the life off of the streets before. It can easily do so again. One way to help avoid that would've been simple - dont have a food court or buffet in the casino. People wanna eat? Let them walk to East 4th. Is that unorthodox? Yes. But you take away the competition and guarantee some street vitality.