Mwd711

I too am shocked that Cleveland would be chosen for a team. It looked like Cleveland's bid was dead in the water for several years. For me, I'm not shocked that it was chosen over a high growth area (say someplace down South) , as the MLS wanted a midwest team, and let's be honest, theres not many high growth areas here. But I thought Milwaukee was the most likely city to gain a bid out of the Midwest. It is a shame it will be in Summit but I can understand the reasons for it. I have to believe a MLS team will be able to draw very well regionally and Summit is much more ideally suited for that than any site in Cuyahoga would be. Do they actually own this land? To be honest, I know nothing about that area or what is even around there. If the property is already spoken for by another entity, it could be years until a stadium is actually built. And pope, from everything I have heard Detroit hasn't been seriously considered for an expansion team nor is anybody aggressively persuing a team :(

As a native Detroiter, I can tell you why the Super Bowl was a good thing to bring to the city. It will probably not have any long term effects on the city's image nor will it be a huge economic boost. Detroit's image is too shattered to change overnight and there are still thousands of problems to deal with in the region. This event brought the metro area together. For once, people from Detroit were proud to be from Detroit. They worked hard to make Downtown look great. People in the suburbs actually cared about the city. Normally, it is hard to find anybody who cares what goes on in the city. This is a region that refuses to even come to an agreement when it comes to bus service! They ate downtown, visited the shops. Some people who came from the suburbs hadn't been in the city for 15 years! Metro Detroit suffers badly from a "woe is us" image like many people have in Cleveland unfortunately. They look down at their city, and bash it. The media does it and so do the residents. For once people in Detroit were not saying this. They worked together, suburb and city. That never happens in Detroit. Now, the region just needs to continue that relationship and things will look much better. No matter what cost, this makes me happy as a Detroiter. For once we were all proud of being Detroiters and boasted it. To me, that is priceless, hopefully it changes backwards thinking that has haunted Metro Detroit for 50 years. If this had happened in Cleveland and you saw the region working together, collaborating, people proud of your city, maybe you wouldnt think having the Super Bowl is such a bad thing after all. Detroit did this to boost its image locally just as much as it did nationally. I have to believe Cleveland needs some of that as well considering all the negative things we hear about our city in the media and from near sighted residents of the region. I'm not advocating building a dome in Cleveland, far from it, I''m just giving you a perspective on what effect it had on Detroiters. I don't think that effect would be bad thing for Northeast Ohio to feel good about their city and to boost themselves up. In the months I have lived in Cleveland, I have seen, it too suffers from that same local image problem that Detroit suffers from. Until Clevelanders change that, I'm not sure the region will ever grow again. We must get past that as a region. I'm hopeful the Super Bowl did that for Detroit.

I don't think anybody is seriously considering putting a dome on the stadium, KJP. Even if Cleveland did, as we have stated before, it would hardly be enough to get a Super Bowl. This is more just a hypothetical situation or perhaps our fantasy. Personally, I think it would be a huge mistake to even consider such a thing in reality. It also shows how we are lagging behind some regions especially when it comes to a major convention center. The lack of a decent convention center in the city is embarassing. If Cleveland actually did dome the Browns Stadium (which will not happen), you would still need a much larger convention center to even consider bidding for the game or any other sporting event. To me, this discussion just accentuates how badly a new center is needed and it gives you a better idea on where Ohio cities stand with quality hotel rooms. Both are factors in luring businesses and any events to a city, be it sporting or something else.

I should also mention when people first came to Detroit for the game this week, there was a disappointment in the weather. Some of the visitors wanted snow! For them, it would be a novelty. And considering the huge winter festival that is going on at Campus Martius, the snow is badly needed for them. Now, driving in it will be another story for them. :-P I'm guessing they didn't think of that at the time. Hopefully, Detroit is prepared, they have contracted the City of Windsor to cross the border and help with all snow removal. A good effort would help any northern city in the future in bidding for the game.

It would be very hard for most cities to have 17,500 three star hotel rooms. That is a huge amount. It makes me wonder how Jacksonville ever pulled that off. I've never been to Jacksonville but I doubt they can have that many rooms. Quite honestly, I'm too lazy to research it at the moment :) Maybe they used Orlando and Daytona rooms to pad their total. It paid off for Detroit even though I can't imagine people coming up from Toledo, especially if they are the type who will only stay in a 3 star hotel or better :) I'm not sure a potential weather problem will stop another Super Bowl from coming up north though. One, Detroit does exaggerate all their snowstorms. They hype it to no end. Most of the time, very little falls but people overreact. Much more overrreaction from what I have seen in other places. Remember when Pontiac held the game in 1982, that was a nightmare. Logistically, it was terrible. Having the stadium so far from Downtown and at that time, Northern Oakland County didn't have the amenities that it has today. Even with the Detroit snowstorm that occurred in 82, the NFL went to Minneapolis in 1992 for a game and now, they are back in Detroit. Perhaps it will be a 10 -15 year occurrence :) I do agree though that Indy would be next in line for a game up north. Perhaps in 2011 since I think that is the next open date.

My hometown is Detroit and I have spent virtually my entire life there. I moved to Erie, PA for 2 years after that and I have resided in the Cleveland area since June :)

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:SEzUvLhzvtoJ:www.detnews.com/2004/lifestyle/0405/09/a02-147095.htm+toledo+%2B+flint+%2B+%22super+bowl+bid%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=safari Here is an old cached page off of Google from the Detroit News. Hopefully, it will work on here, but to summarize, it states the NFL wanted 17,500 rooms in its bid. Detroit sent a list of 19,000 contracted rooms that did include Flint and Toledo. This is in a quote from the executive director of the Host Committee, Susan Sherer. http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:3Dw3AnvrH9MJ:info.detnews.com/dn/2005/metro/0507/20/B01-253597.htm+toledo+%2B+flint+%2B+%22super+bowl%22+%2B+%22hotel+rooms%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=safari Here is another cached article from The Detroit News. Quoting the article ... Michele Lewis, vice president of events for the Detroit Super Bowl Host Committee, said the committee, as far as the NFL is concerned, met its obligations by reserving 17,500 rooms that are within 60 miles of Ford Field and are three-star or above, including 1,000 rooms in Toledo, 1,000 in Ann Arbor and 1,000 in Windsor. Another 20,000 rooms are available in places like Flint, Port Huron and Sarnia. So, we have to include only 3 star or more hotels so that narrows things down considerably for instance, when debating whether Cincy has enough rooms to even qualify for a bid. Living in Detroit at the time, I remember that was one of the biggest concerns for the committee. The local Super 8, Motel 6 and Econo Lodge don't count at all towards your room count.

I'm not sure about the hotel room requirements but I do know that Detroit factored in the Flint , Windsor and Toledo rooms in their bid. I believe this was done since the Detroit number made it only if you included the proposed casino/hotels. The hotel/casinos have still not been built but as I mentioned on another thread, so far rooms have not been as hard to find as officials predicted. Obviously, you need a domed stadium. A new one will really help. You need domed practice facilities - at least if you are in a Northern market. Here's where the old Silverdome has come in handy. The Steelers are practicing there. Roads and transit factor in as well. You also need an adequate location for the NFL Experience which is quite large. I am not sure the exact size of it but I think its at least several hundred thousand square feet. This takes a large convention center. I do not know the size of Cincy's convention center, but I'm betting Cleveland's wouldn't cut it. A great host committee and presentation is also essential. Cleveland would be the best choice given its proximity to other large cities, its the largest market, isn't far from the Football Hall and is pretty well known for its arts and culture. The downside for it, would be the lack of a convention center. Even if the NFL Experience isn't as large as I think, Cleveland's center would be inadequate for this type of event. It wouldn't cut it at least in my opinion.

The Detroit Free Press recently had a story about how the business spin off has not occurred for areas like Flint and Toledo. The hotels are not doing nearly as well as they predicted. Many have lowered rates hoping to gain some visitors. Most estimates have the hotels outside of Metro Detroit all around 50 percent full, not anywhere near the predicted occupancies. Even in the Detroit area, some hotels still have a few rooms available. So, either they didn't realize how many rooms Metro Detroit and Windsor have or the Detroit location is scaring some visitors away (which it shouldn't.)

I would say the NHL has a very minimal following in Cleveland. I know I have had very few conversations about hockey with anyone since I moved here (its been over 6 months) and during the many years I visited before that. I think a CBJ afflilated team would help keep pro hockey in town though. You could do some marketing things and maybe bring a pre-season game up here at the Q to build some interest for both teams. At least an Ohio connnection would allow us to keep track of our prospects better, good luck following San Jose from here. When the players are promoted, we never see them! Unless you have Center Ice of course :)

Cleveland did have NHL hockey for a few years in the mid to late 70's. The Oakland Seals were moved to Cleveland when Gordon Gund became the majority owner and became the Barons. The Barons of the NHL played at Richfield and always struggled attendance wise. The best they ever did was 13,000. They had such a bad lease, the Gund family tried to buy the Coliseum. That was the last hope for the franchise but they couldn't make a deal. The Barons then merged with Minnesota which was also struggling financially. The Gunds took control of the Minnesota team in a deal worked out with the NHL and the Barons folded. Before that in the early 70's, there were the Crusaders of the WHA (the NHL's rival) When the Barons came, the Crusaders left. Ironically the Crusaders moved to Minnesota. The original AHL Barons were very successful back from the 30's through the 70s. A very loyal following which allowed a WHA team to enter the market. They left when the Crusaders came. The WHA was an upgrade from the AHL at the time. The Lumberjacks were very successful. They even sold out the Gund a few times although that was boosted by giveaways. It's a shame that when the IHL folded, the franchise didn't move to the AHL. This gap without hockey in Cleveland killed the market. Thus, in a way, the Barons were forgotten. I also think the Barons struggle so badly because of very poor marketing and the fact they are affiliated with a team so far away. This is where the hope for a new team begins. The Blue Jackets AHL affiliation is expected to change from Syracuse after this year and Cleveland and Cincy are battling for the team. Cleveland is believed to be the front runner with Dan Gilbert owning the team. When Gund (yes, the same Gund family that had the Barons and Minnesota NHL franchises, the Gunds have owned 3 different NHL teams all at different times) sold the Sharks, it was only a matter of time before the Barons picked up and left town. The only reason the Barons even came to Cleveland from Kentucky was the Gund connection.

Count me in for the North Coast on this one. It would compliment the Science Center perfectly. Families are most apt to go to the science center. Why not put another family oriented attraction nearby??? The Rock Hall is definitely not family oriented. I would say most families visit GLSC and then leave. Giving them another option would help build a following for both venues and perhaps keep visitors Downtown longer. Hopefully, this would create more development along the Coast as the Shoreway is rebuilt. An aquarium would be a great addition to the region and I see the North Coast as the most viable option.

Magic's company acquired Severance after it was re-developed into a power center. That's probably what you are thinking of. Whatever company did buy Randall Park has made it pretty secretive. All I can find are conflicting reports and rumors over who bought it. Nothing I can truly confirm because it is all a run around. Even an article from Crain's didn't truly tell. It told of a capital fund company owning it while Farbman Group was managing it. Farbman's site does not have any listings for Randall Park and the fund's site sounds more like a loan company than a mall owner. It makes me wonder if a re-development could be on its way soon. Farbman is usually not in the mall business, they run office buildings. I do remember several years ago, it was rumored that the mall was going to be torn down for a MLS soccer stadium. Obviously, that has fallen through since the mall is still sitting there and there's has been no news of a soccer team coming to Cleveland.

I believe Richmond is on the decline again due to the loss of many prominent chain stores. This includes Old Navy. It is not exactly a good sign when one of your largest inline tenants gets up and leaves. There are more and more indie retailers showing up. This is usually a sign of a declining mall. Is the mall dead? Certainly not, it is a long ways from that but it has lost many of its tenants since its renovation. Just compare it to Great Lakes Mall. GLM is doing very well since its renovation. Richmond hasn't been able to hang on to many of those chains that move in after renovation. I just don't see why a second floor would even be necessary there. The east side is pretty much "malled out". What stores are needed there? I don't see any demand for more retail there. The loss of tenants proves that. I do agree however Sears desperately needs a makeover on its exterior. JCPenney's was given a makeover with the mall renovation. It's not a great look but I don't think it is totally outdated either. One final note and this goes back to Randall Park, and it is a correction of my own. Simon sold the mall for $4 million in 2003 so they no longer own it. As far as who owns it today, all I can find is conflicting information. Simon never announced who purchased it and they buried the fact they sold it at all in a financial sheet. Obviously Simon gave up on it after its lazy "renovation."

Simon currently owns Randall Park Mall. They did a lazy renovation when they added the Magic Johnson Movies in the 90's. Instead of actually renovating the mall, this was their hope for a re-birth there. I still have no idea how a theater alone would bring it alive and of course this did not work. The mall continued to fall apart and look even more dated. More anchors left and then the stores went with it. I have not been in there in about 4 years, but last time I was there, the inside was mainly just indie businesses. The chains had all left besides the anchors. The whole area is depressing. From the mall, to the shopping centers around it. There's only one hope, tear it all down, and come up with something new for the neighborhood. Whether it be mixed use or something else. Almost all the retail around it is going empty not to mention the hulk of the Holiday Inn. It's odd that Simon did such a good job redeveloping Richmond Mall (although it is starting to decline, once again) but they put no effort what so ever into reversing the decline at Randall Park besides bringing in Burlington and Magic.

Almost every urban area in the country complains to the Census about being undercounted. The census has serious problems counting everybody, but almost every leader from every urban area that lost population complains about the same thing. Undercounts, they should include homeless, etc. NEO is no different than any of those. IMHO, it all evens out since every other city complains about that as well :) That still doesn't change their estimates they put out in April though. Remember, that this is a estimate, there is no actual counting going on. The whole undercounted thing really doesn't apply here unless they totally missed their estimates. The prior complaints were in 2000, where they were actually counting.

Cuyahoga County has been losing population at a pretty rapid pace. But it would not surprise me at all to see the 2010 census show an increase. There is no doubt in my mind there will be a bump in the county's population. Cleveland's is one I'm not so sure about. Should the development continue, it should be possible for Cleveland to make a gain when 2010 comes around. In 2003-04, the Census estimated that Cuyahoga had lost 10,000 people in that span. From 2000-04 , it is estimated the county lost 45,000 people. So, it makes me wonder what changed that now it came back up. It was also estimated that the area as a whole lost 3,000 residents in that four year span. These numbers came out in April. I still believe that the county with make this up before 2010 but I wonder just when this time of "growth" occured. The latest estimates released to the public show the opposite. And unusualfire is completely correct. To attract people, you must have jobs. It is just that simple. Cleveland gets shafted somewhat in the population numbers as there are plenty of transient people who are in the area but are not counted by the Census. These are students, professionals training in the hospitals. These are people listed as being from their home state although all their time and money is being invested here. I'm just guessing but I believe Cleveland has plenty of these transients thanks to UH and the Clinic.

Cleveland was strictly used as a backdrop. To Clevelanders, yes it is obvious that it was shot here. But the story completely takes place in Indiana. The book and the movie. Also, the school scenes were not shot here. That is a school in Toronto that is supposed to be in Indiana. ANd actually there is a Harding School in Indiana. The director named the Parkers street as Cleveland Street as an ode to the city but unless you are familar with Cleveland, there is nothing in this movie to tell you that's where it is shot. But there are references to Terre Haute, Hammond and other Indiana points. The Free Times had a great story about this a few weeks ago. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085334/trivia has plenty of more A Christmas Story Facts and explains better than I do about the confusion over where it was taking place. I suppose the director wanted to keep the book as close to the movie as possible so that is why they didn't change its supposed location from Indiana. It was Shepherd's home after all and the novel was based there. And while I have never been to Hammond, Indiana, something tells me they do not have a grand public square with a large department store building like Cleveland had, not to mention all the extras that could be used. From the vintage car club, to the residents. How many movies are actually shot where they take place anymore??? That's really far and few in between thanks to tax abatements and the like. Canada is practically the backdrop for every movie made today.

The movie itself was not based in Ohio. It is supposed to be taking place in Hammond outside of Gary, Indiana in the 1940s. Jean Shepherd who wrote the story was from Hammond. Cleveland was used as the backdrop but if you watch it, it has several references to Indiana cities, roads and stores. The director chose Cleveland after scouting 20 different cities. Of course the majority of the movie was shot in Ontario. Cleveland was only used for the Public Square scenes and the scenes outside the house. The Tremont neighborhood has an uncanny resemblance to Hammond therefore it was chosen for the outdoor scenes at home.

Who owns the Reserve Square market currently? I'm guessing it is just an indie who rents it. You guys are right, with no visibility, the market is a total unknown. I moved to the Cleveland area 6 months ago, and spent many years visiting the area before that and I had no idea there was a market in the RS until I read that the building had been sold. I don't think many people know that it exists! I The market needs to be somewhat the opposite of Constantino's. Instead of gourmet, go more mainstream, not a copy-cat. It needs to be something different. There is a real need for a general grocery downtown. And, X, don't worry about walking with those heavy bags. Get a folding grocery cart like the rest of us :-P