DEPACincy

In short, yes. Very possible to see population loss and stagnating population. Smaller households means higher demand for housing with same population. It's a phenomenon you see in a lot of gentrifying neighborhoods. Also, if the people moving to Cleveland have more money than the people leaving (or dying) then that'll contribute to higher housing costs as well. Cleveland's biggest problem is that the population is very old. The median age in the metro is 42. Compare that to 38 in Cincinnati, 37 in Columbus, and 36 in Austin. As long as that median age is so high, the natural increase (or decrease) part of the equation is going to be hard to overcome.

The store is crazy successful and an isolated incident doesn't change that.

Depends on how you define well I think. Cincinnati Public Schools certainly has its issues but there are some very good schools, including public Montessori and foreign language schools that are coveted. And Walnut Hills High School, a public magnet, is consistently ranked as a top five school in the state and often ranked number one.

That makes sense. Proportion went down but total "no car" households still went up in absolute terms. Just not as fast as multi car households.

In 2010 there were 36,702 Hamco household without a car and 121,322 with one car. In 2022 those figures were 38,716 and 127,804. 2010 households without a car in the city were 24,166 and one car households were 55,963. In 2022, those figures were 27,087 and 63,049

Cool story. I'm glad you've been around awhile. Not sure what it has to do with anything we are talking about in 2024 though.

We have a lot of UC interns and they all take the bus and like it. So you can add my anecdote to your store of knowledge.

Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Rochester, Cleveland are ground zero for the US aging crisis. There's a huge labor shortage.

I don't doubt you experienced that. UC has tens of thousands of students. If less than 1% take Ubers across campus daily that's hundreds of trips. It's also meaningless in this conversation.

It takes 10 minutes to walk across campus from Clifton Avenue to Jefferson.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether it would work in Cincy because we both agree it probably isn't happening. But I will say that Dayton, Eastern KY, and a lot of WV have much stronger economic and cultural ties to Cincy than they do to Columbus. I grew up near Ashland and still have family there. People regularly travel to Cincy to go to Reds, Bengals, Kings Island, the Cincinnati Zoo. Growing up I didn't know anybody who had been to the Columbus Zoo. I think those areas would embrace another Cincy team more than they embrace the Blue Jackets. But those aren't the areas that I think sustain a team anyway. It's the corporate money and fans in the Dayton/Cincy/Louisville/Lexington region.

I think you're correct that wealth matters, but I think the overall population matters too. Plus, I don't think Hartford is a good example. It's one of the smaller metros in the immediate vicinity and obviously dwarfed by NYC and Boston. Cincy is the biggest metro in the vicinity. Louisville, Lexington, and Dayton residents are used to traveling to Cincy for entertainment. Very few NYers are traveling to Hartford in the same manner.

There's about 9 million people within a 100 miles of downtown Cincinnati. That's more than Dallas.

This makes zero sense. You're saying that the BRT plan won't speed up the busses but then you're admitting that we don't get know what the full plan is. How can you know the impact without knowing the plan?

Call it whatever you want but it's just not true that there is "no way to function substantially faster than the Metro Plus or any conventional bus." There is very real potential to build something that is faster and more frequent than anything we've seen in Cincinnati in our lifetimes.

Probably not. JMLK said she was going to find private funding for it and I don't think she's even made an attempt. It was just a publicity stunt.

I don't think people are bored with them, the market is just saturated. Places like Rhinegeist and Madtree are packed to the brim every evening and all day on the weekends. But there's so many options now, it sucks to be a Tier 2 taproom.

And that is a damn shame because I can't think of any parcels in OTR that aren't appropriate for at least 5 stories.

Counties don't have any say about whether their included in an MSA. It's all about the criteria, which is strict. All counties that are part of an urbanized area (which has minimum density standards) are included, as well as outlying counties that meet commuting standards. And people definitely do compare cities all the time but they shouldn't. No credible academic would without a million caveats or a way to normalize the data. It's just not a useful thing to do. It creates more confusion than it does clarity. Like I said, it's fine and great to post data about cities. It's useful in the context of understanding the administrative boundary in question. It's just not useful at all for comparisons.

MSAs are standardized based on commuting patterns and population density to get at a true city size. It's not perfect though. I personally prefer urbanized area, which I feel is a bit more exact. But MSA is the accepted standard for comparison. The thing is, both were created for statistical comparison. Comparing municipalities is never going to be helpful when you have better options. And I'm not attacking you. I appreciate you posting city data. It's interesting. I'm just also sharing information about how geographers prefer to compare urban areas.

We can argue about this all day but geographers are unanimous in the opinion that you should not be comparing cities like this. Cities are administrative geographies and were not created for statistical comparison. This is why MSAs exist. They do a decent (though not perfect) job of equalizing the area you are comparing.

How on earth could you make this claim based on street view? Have you ever hung out around there? There are tons of bars and restaurants that exist because of MSG and market toward arena patrons.

For someone who goes outside a lot you sure do seem to hate the world. If you think the stadium hasn't been a positive for OTR or Court Street business you should go talk to them sometime because they'll tell you otherwise.

I think it looks cool. 🤷‍♂️

I saw some OD numbers and it was over 2 million annual Cleveland - Columbus and over 2 million Columbus - Cincy trips as well, if I remember correctly. Cincy - Dayton trips were like 35 million. Of course, Butler County and Montgomery County border each other so some of those are very short trips.