Redbeard1969

That definitely clarifies it, because the PD article was really odd ... it did make it sound like the route ends at the Shoreway, and then folks can just hike up West Boulevard and catch a rapid, or walk the rest of the way via the Shoreway. Though I do like the suggestion of eventually running the BRT from Public Square down Detroit to the Rocky River border ... now THAT is something that would spur some economic development, not only in Lakewood, but also along Detroit in Cleveland. But the BRT on Clifton is a good start ...

If you'd like to see (visibly) some of the big developments of the past, check out www.clevelandmemory.org, which is the site of the Special Collections Department at Cleveland State University. They've got some wonderful collections, and two of them pertain to these discussions; The Union Terminal Collection, which details the construction of the Union Terminal and Terminal Tower; and the Cleveland Press Collection, the old "morgue" for the late, great, Cleveland Press. The Union Terminal collection (http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/cut2/index.shtml)has a great many photos showing what existed before the area was demolished to build the terminal complex, and gives you a wonderful idea of the sheer scale of the project. The Mall project's railroad station was planned to be a very grand edifice (http://ech.cwru.edu/Resource/Image/M02.jpg), which sadly was never completed ... there's actually a great series of articles and information available on the group plan (http://groupplan.dhellison.com/articles.php) which has some great renderings as well. But don't forget development that led to possible negative consequences ... such as the digging of the innerbelt freeway, and the construction of the Willow Freeway (I-77). Think of the neighborhoods that were disrupted or outright destroyed. I was always amazed by the photo at the Cleveland Press Collection showing St. Joseph's Church on Woodland Avenue, surrounded by a sea of nothingness, as the surrounding neighborhood was utterly demolished to make way for the freeway and "urban renewal." Now on that site is Tri-C, some other buildings, and some housing projects. Renewal? Cities are constantly being made and remade, and there's always been periods of development in Cleveland's history, though the stuff currently going on is intriguing, because a good deal of the development we're talking about here is the reintroduction of living spaces in the downtown area ... which is a development that counters the past trends ... Gateway was nice, but it didn't bring that many people downtown to live ... but the Flats East Bank project, the K&D developments on the West Bank, the Avenue, hopefully someday the Scranton Peninsula, the various developments in Tremont, all are bringing people back downtown, countering much of the urban renewal and "white flight" of the 1960s. If anything, I'm wondering if this is almost a tipping point ... will these developments bear fruit, and bring more people downtown to live? And if so, will eventually we get a "critical mass," which will result in more housing and more retail to feed and supply those people living downtown, and thus making downtown more vibrant, and more active? The past developments were all about offices, civic buildings, buildings with a social purpose (arenas, auditoriums, etc.) or developments that eliminated housing (such as the neighborhoods destroyed for the Union Terminal complex or for freeway construction)... but now these new developments are all about places to live. It's an exciting time to live in Cleveland, but it'll be even more exciting in the near future as this stuff opens up, and we see if people continue to move back into the city ... and what the spillover will be from that!

Wasn't that parcel of land considered for an IKEA years ago? I thought I had heard that it was, but that the City of Cleveland, which owned a good bit of land out there, didn't want it, because Mike White wanted offices filled with higher-income taxpayers, rather than retail stores filled with minimum-wage clerks ... I'll have to check the Crains's Cleveland Business archives, because I remember reading it in Crains ... yet, there's a big shopping center out there now (since no office towers filled the land, other than the one), and now a hospital. I still wish there was going to be an IKEA out there, but that'll never happen.

Here's the image:

They've been publicizing it lately; I'll try to an image of the place from the UH website. From what I can tell, the corner of Richmond and Harvard is at the top left corner of the image, and the "ghostly" tower images flanking the one in the middle are future expansions of the center, if needed. Here's also the text describing the center from the UH website: As the crown jewel in the suburban component of the hospital’s Vision 2010 strategic plan, the new Ahuja Medical Center will become a symbol of caring for the community for generations to come. It will be situated on a 53-acre, previously undeveloped site at I-271 and Harvard Road. And, its design will be a prominent addition to the landscape, while having a minimal impact on the environment as an eco-friendly facility. It will also be a catalyst for economic growth by bringing jobs, attracting additional medical industry and generating tremendous tax revenues. In his address to an awestruck crowd after University Hospitals CEO, Thomas F. Zenty III’s December 2006 announcement of the a $30 million philanthropic gift from Monte Ahuja and his family, Mr. Ahuja said, “Cleveland has given me my life. I can think of no better investment than University Hospitals’ Vision 2010.” Mr. Zenty praised the Ahujas saying, "In naming UH's newest hospital the Ahuja Medical Center, we are paying tribute to the family's dedication to advancing health care for our community and beyond, and ensuring that future generations recognize the Ahuja family's role in promoting the economic vitality of Northeast Ohio." Preliminary conceptual rendering of the new Ahuja Medical Center Beginning in 2003, hospital leadership and directors poured over market and industry studies to best determine how to meet the needs of an aging population in the eastern suburbs and a tremendously booming pattern of migration into suburbs further out such as Aurora, Twinsburg and Solon. To make advanced care more accessible to eastsiders and to anticipate growth in the need for services such as cardiac and stroke care, and others, hospital leaders determined the facility would be extremely viable. But, they wanted to go even further by embarking on an ambitious and carefully considered planning process to create one of the safest, best healing hospitals in the country. As part of Vision 2010, the Ahuja Medical Center will truly fulfill the plan's goals of anticipating the health care needs of the region and providing care in a hospital “built around the need of patients and their families.” Vision 2010 reaffirms a strong commitment to the highest-quality, patient-centered care at UH and renews our focus on our centers of excellence in cancer, pediatrics, neurology, cardiology, orthopaedics, and surgical specialties. FACTS ABOUT THE AHUJA MEDICAL CENTER: The 371,700 square-foot hospital design will echo its purpose: to heal people. Integrated into the layout will be healing gardens, ponds, fountains and landscaped areas bordering parking. Walkways and gardens will wind throughout the campus and existing natural landscapes will be preserved. Incorporation of natural features is proven to help reduce stress and decrease healing and recovery times. The eastern suburbs of Cleveland are experiencing one of the greatest surges in population of people aged 45 and above in the nation. Within several cities on the eastside, the over 65 population has more than quintupled in the last decade. In the city of Aurora, more than 70 percent of the population is over age 65. Coupled with the fact that there is a dearth of major medical services in the eastern suburbs, there exists a serious need for advanced medical services in an environment in which savvy baby boomer consumers will want convenient access to high-quality health care. In the medical and surgical areas, an array of inpatient and outpatient services, including the most technologically advanced, minimally-invasive surgical and endoscopic procedures will be available. Leading-edge diagnostic services and genetic counseling will be offered and patients will have the benefit of close proximity to visit their primary care physician in offices adjacent to the hospital.

I've been to Park Lane Villa for several events for the nonprofit I work for ... it's definitely very swank, and is in an amazing location. I hope it's a rousing success. This is a wonderful place for urban living!

I dunno, but that new rounded building going up at the Clinic looks like it'd fit right in along I-271 or down in Independence. The trouble with any and every hospital is that they get developed in fits and starts over decades, so that buildings of different architectural styles are often attached, and it's usually a mish-mosh of different era buildings. Metro is the same way, albeit in an even blander sense. The only way a hospital is going to really be good architecturally is a new greenfield hospital, though the drawings I've seen of the Lake County Hospital look pretty uninspired too. Perhaps it's a bit too much of form following function?

For what it's worth, if you want to see a little bit of what the Steelyard Commons land looked like when it was occupied by Otis Steel, long before it became the retail wonderland it is, check out a book called "Steel Remembered," which has a bunch of archival photos from the Western Reserve Historical Society of steel mills in Cleveland and northeast Ohio (primarily Otis Steel, Corrigan McKinney Steel across the river, and Republic Steel). It's available at Cleveland-area Barnes and Nobles, as well as online at Amazon and other fine online retailers. It's a blatant plug, I admit, but if anyone interested in local industrial history, or likes industrial photographs, it's a good place to start. And it's an interesting contrast, to see what was there, and the people working in the mill ... to what's there now.

Neat book review from the Cleveland Free Times last week ... interesting because of the discussion on the construction thread of Steelyard Commons, and the first book mentioned, "Steel Remembered" has photos of Otis Steel ... which stood once where Steelyard Commons is today! http://www.freetimes.com/stories/15/44/steel-and-water

Those guys have been working for years ... they're good folks, doing good things, though I fear they'll never get the visitation they envision someday getting, because it's not an easy location to find, and to get there requires folks to drive through some fairly sketchy areas, which'll scare off a lot of suburbanites. And it doesn't help that the building is in really sad shape, with likely structural and environmental issues. But I hope they succeed!

Raising money for historical societies is tough (says this former historical society curator and current development officer) ... they need money to maintain their collections, their usually historic buildings, and have staff to provide public service. It's expensive. And raising money from external sources is difficult, especially now with so many other nonprofits, schools and hospitals also seeking external funding. Competition is extremely fierce, and most foundations and corporations do not give grants or awards for continuing operations, but for new programs and initiatives ... and a lot of historical societies just don't have the staff to carry out those new initiatives or programs. There's always individual philanthropy, but a lot of the old money folks who were interested in preserving their local history have passed from the scene, and their children or grandchildren now control the money, and have different priorities in public giving (if they give at all ... I've encountered some second and third generations that felt entitled to the money, and felt zero obligation for philanthropy, no matter what their parents or grandparents did). It's really not an easy situation. There's hardly any government money for anything like this, so most of these organizations are pretty desperate for cash. Ohio Historical Society is not alone; I'd estimate that a good many if not most of the local historical organizations in Ohio are perpetually strapped for cash, and even some of the big historical societies elsewhere in the country are hurting now.

Criminy, I drive over that bridge all the time, and I've seen that building sitting there, but I never realized it was sitting on the old bridge ... that's pretty darn cool!

hey, it's not a vortex of death like the so-called traffic circle at MLK/East Boulevard/East 105th in University Circle. That is the most insane traffic circle I've ever been in. Incoming traffic from MLK has to yield to everyone? What the heck is that about? Drive around New England, especially Massachusetts. There are traffic circles everywhere (or roundabouts, as some of the locals call 'em), and they all work efficiently and logically. Every road leading into the circle yields to traffic in the circle. The one near SYC is a heckuva lot better than the University Circle one, that's for sure.

When it was Clark's, it had a cheesy faux Colonial interior ... neat place, my grandfather used to tend bar in their cocktail lounge there ... which was a haul from his house in Euclid.

Likely that was the Chrysler Twinsburg plant, which opened in the 1950s. They didn't really have the subsidiary operations like GM (don't forget GM also operated what's now called the IX Center ... first as an aircraft factory under Fisher Body, then as a tank plant operated by Cadillac (later operated by Allison, also a GM subsidiary). Sorry, I'm just a history geek and like adding to the story ... KJP, do you or anyone know of how successful (or not) SYC has been so far? Has anyone done surveys or has the developer ever released any numbers? Anectdotally, I was shocked when I went by a few weeks before the holidays and saw the Super Wal-Mart absolutely jammed with people. The parking lot was absolutely filled ... as was the parking in front of Target. That surprised me (especially since there's a new Target only a few miles away at West 117th), so I'm wondering if SYC is considered successful ... or is it such a work in progress that we'll be unable to know until more retailers open up, and the "Phase II" portion is completed?

well, don't dis Aldi's, because the stuff they have there is actually quite good ... which isn't suprising, since Aldi's actually OWNS Trader Joe's (which is always amusing, because some folks will slam Aldi's with one breath and then turn around and rave about Trader Joe's ...), and they even have some of the same food as Trader Joe's, although they're badged as one of Aldi's house brands. Yes, they came into the American market by targeting low-income areas, and unfortunately they've gotten known for that, but if you look around, there's Aldi's now all over the place ... even in Westlake. I've been to the new store on West 117th, and while it's nowhere near a full-service grocery store, you can get an awful lot of staples that are far cheaper than any of the grocery stores, but with a high quality. So it will not be a good replacement for Giant Eagle, but Aldi's is a place to get very good foods (often made by the major food companies, but rebadged with Aldi's house brand names), for dirt cheap prices. It's no frills service, but for the amount of money you save there, who needs frills?

One thing that's fascinating is that on the online forum of the Lakewood Observer newspaper, there's a discussion about redeveloping a former Giant Eagle grocery store, and people are hoping it'll be a Trader Joe's. Now there's talk of a Trader Joe's at Steelyard. Has anyone looked into how a small specialty grocer with limited stock, owned by ALDI (which is generally looked down upon as a grocer to lower-income shoppers), has become the darling and savior of modern retail? Granted, TJ's is an interesting place, and I do shop there periodically, but every suburb seems to want one, and whenever there's a new development with retail, the Trader Joe's name is floated as one of the possible tenants. Has there been a study like this, a "Trader Joe" halo effect ... much like years ago, Pottery Barn or Borders was the magic retailer that everyone wanted?

well, we're all armchair critics here, and we all have our opinion. If anything, I do recognize the issue of the building creating an urban space ... but it's also a slippery slope, because while a hospital is a public building, it's also utilized a bit differently. And I don't believe the floor plan is essentially set on this particular building, so there very well may be a "quasi-retail function" set on the Euclid side. There likely will be an entrance of sorts on Euclid, but it will not be a "grand public entrance." Why? Because few if any patients will approach it that way. Like it or not, the parking for this building will be in the existing garage on Cornell, and an adjacent one planned for it. And people will likely come to the garage, park there, and either walk across the street, or cross over in a pedestrian bridge, and enter the hospital. So out of necessity, that becomes one of the main entrances. And while the building appears to front on University Hospitals Drive, that may be in flux, because the site is currently occupied by the Cleveland Hearing and Speech Center, which was going to remain with the new cancer hospital built next to it. Apparently that's now changed, and that building will be vacated and demolished as they build their own building elsewhere. That may impact what happens to the cancer hospital and how it looks (Or it may not ... I've been involved with some architects that lock into a design early and only make the most minor of modifications, even when there are major site changes) or how the public can access it. I have seen plans that show a lot of greenspace around the new hospital, and gardens. Will there be spaces to make it more public, more urban? There may be, but there might not be. Hospital administrators often don't think of that, and the hospital planners are yes, focused more on what goes inside. This happens at the Clinic as well, because some of their buildings also suffer from this (as well as other hospitals ... jeez, look at Metro) ... where they're not always good examples of urban planning, and instead tend to be inwardly-focused fortresses, hardly putting a welcoming face out to the community. Yes, UH has an opportunity to really do something special architecturally. Are they doing it? It's a matter of opinion, but the consensus here is no. Though I don't think they're concerned. Maybe it's a matter of working to educate the powers-that-be at an institution like UH that they should consider these things before they really start putting ink to paper on the designs. This forum is a great debating society, but you have to admit, we're here because we want to be here and want to have these discussions. How do we involve those who don't care, or begin to educate them to see the benefits of good urban design? That's one thing I think Litt really fails in ... he makes proncouncements, rather than really trying to educate the public in what design can be and can do ... though also admitting what it can't do or can't be (because it can't always be the panacea that he'd like it to be). Frankly, that's one of the reasons I'm even on this forum, to learn, and hear others' ideas and opinions. I'm not an architect or urban designer, at best I'm a historian of Cleveland (actually got paid to be a historian, too ... though it's not exactly a lucrative job) and interested in preserving Cleveland's past, but also trying to see the city move into the future. And sorry if you don't like my opinion ... but then again, you don't have to. I'm just putting in two cents.

Hey, take my comments however you wish. I've actually worked at firms that had building projects, only to have them rocked by Litt, who in some cases, DEMANDED changes ... and he wasn't the client, he was only a critic who has a very particular view of architecture (i.e., what he likes is valid, and what he doesn't like shouldn't be built) and a built-in bias against Cleveland architects (and how do you expect local architects to improve and attract talent if the local architecture critic urges all major building projects to avoid Cleveland firms ... And while architecture can transform a place ... it can also NOT transform a place. Don't oversell the value of architecture. Look at Litt's love of his life, the Weatherhead building at Case. Interesting building designed by a world-class architect that Litt lionizes. Has it really made University Circle more vibrant? Perhaps it contributes to it, but the synergy of all those institutions and their programs makes the Circle a pretty vibrant place. Yes, the new glasshouse at the Botanical Garden and the new Art Museum addition will add to that ... but the Circle was already pretty vibrant before that. And while the Weatherhead has been perceived as world-class ... has it ultimately helped the Weatherhead School? They seem in more turmoil than ever before, and their rankings have slipped. Shouldn't a building like that attract the best and brightest? ... okay, I'm being facetious, and purposely so. Architecture is important ... but not as important as someone like Litt would tell you. If we tore down all of downtown and rebuilt it all with ultramodern stark buildings designed by young gun European architects (which I'm sure he dreams about), would it necessarily boost the local economy? Would there be less homeless? Would there be more jobs? Would it solve the issue of the Cleveland Public Schools? Would it end racism? Well, no ... and yes, I'm still being facetious. A new building does improve the aesthetic value of a city, but it can be a new building like the classical design of the new Lakewood Library, which is NOT ultra modern, nor designed by an up and coming European architect, but by the dean of Modern Classicism. Of course, Litt didn't like that. Look, I guess my biggest criticism of the guy is that his own worldview is limited; he likes what he likes, and anything that does not fit that narrow criteria is bad, a waste of money, and shouldn't be done. Perhaps that fills his role as critic, but I'd like to see a critic who is more an educator of what architecture is, can be, can do, and recognize that there is a wide variety out there, all with a degree of merit. I'm not fond of the ultra-modern stuff, but it has its place, and in some places has done some revigoration of a neighborhood or an urban space, but there's also something to be said about a classically-designed building, an adaptive reuse of an older architectural style, or a building like a hospital, where the form really should follow the function, rather than the other way around. Have you seen what's currently on the site of the new cancer hospital? Have you also seen how the Ireland Cancer Center is spread out over a number of different buildings, and is massively overcrowded? Probably not. I've been in there. I've seen people waiting in line for their chemo, I've seen them sitting in the hallways getting their chemo because there's not enough private rooms. And while there is no "physical" Ireland Cancer Center (because it's spread out in several different buildings), they haven't had a trouble attracting top talent, because they are and hopefully will remain one of the top cancer centers in the nation. Perhaps the building should face Euclid Avenue (though all the patients are going to come from the parking garage, so a Euclid Avenue entrance would be virtually unused), but Litt's pronouncements pretty much dismiss the building ... when the work performed inside means the difference between life and death. And the fact that he's making the pronouncements when the design really hasn't been finalized (and frankly, he would have hated earlier iterations of the building even more, because they were rather traditional looking) is jumping the gun. Wait awhile; the site for the building has been increased a great deal, so the building is being redesigned. I know he'd like to have more influence on the building's redesign, but let the hospital folks drive that. Given the surrounding architecture in this area, whatever is the final design is ultimately going to be pretty radically different from the other buildings around here, many of which are rather conservative and traditional (and in many cases, very bland!), and I think will really be very aesthetically appealing, and most importantly, will bring all the cancer specialists, treatment centers, labs, and even healing gardens under one roof (and in fact, that was what that "bump out" at the bottom of the building is for, a healing garden ... and here's where I would argue very much that this function is particularly important, and should drive the form a bit). I don't think it's going to scare away any doctors or researchers either ... they come to UH or the Clinic (hello, bland buildings!) because of the work that is performed within ... not the architecture. But I do also realize that this forum is focused on plans, architecture, usage, and a variety of other issues. So I apologize if I've offended anyone. It's just that I'm particularly close to the issue, and I think that having an actual dedicated cancer center in one physical location is a great boon ... and that the architecture is really secondary to that. And I also guarantee if Mr. Litt were to ever be diagnosed with cancer, I don't think he'd turn down treatment there because he doesn't like the building. Besides, you should see some of the other top centers in America ... Sloan-Kettering in New York? Looks like a shopping mall. Mayo Clinic? Looks like an old Statehouse building surrounded by 1970s office towers. Dana-Farber in Boston? Try to pick it out of a crowd of bland office buildings ... so generally, hospital buildings are ugly. But that doesn't ever seem to affect quality of care, reputation of doctors, or the need for them. Compared to the other top cancer centers in the nation, the new Ireland is going to look pretty darn good. And it will be an aesthetic asset to the neighborhood, and have a positive impact on peoples' lives.

hey guys, calm down ... first off, the design isn't cast in concrete yet, it's just eye-candy. That picture for the cancer hospital is only a second or third iteration ... and it's still being revised, though not because of Litt. For one thing, the footprint is increasing, which will dictate some changes. As for the look, I think UH is looking for form following function. In Litt's eyes, function is irrelevant; all buildings should be ultra-modern cutting-edge facilities designed by young architects from Europe. And if they've never designed a hospital, so much the better. However, UH is bucking his trend, by picking architects that do hospitals. And they're more concerned with what goes on INSIDE the hospital (i.e., treating cancer) than what it looks like from the sidewalk. But because of the footprint change (the building site has gotten bigger recently), the building look will likely change. Litt's criticisms are always the same; always wants design competitions, prefers cutting-edge architects (hates local or regional architects), wants the building exterior to be supreme over what goes on inside, yadda yadda yadda. Look, the UH buildings ultimately may not be cutting edge, but what goes in INSIDE is going to be crucial ... and all these buildings are a $1billion investment, which is also pretty important. Just wait until designs are finalized. You'll probably still hate 'em ... until you're diagnosed with cancer. Then, the most cutting edge Frank Gehry building won't save you ... the docs inside will ... and hopefully they'll have a building that's conducive to healing, not Steve Litt's opinion. So what buildings has he designed?

the Cleveland Plain Dealer finally had a story listing some of the retailers coming. Not much that's terribly special so far; the Original Pancake House has really good food, but the Woodmere one has absolutely inept service: Ulta Cosmetics, Justice coming to Westgate Posted by Janet H. Cho March 12, 2007 12:04PM Cleveland's first Ulta Cosmetics and Justice, a fashion store for "tweens," are among the new tenants coming to Westgate shopping center on the border of Rocky River and Fairview Park... Among other confirmed tenants: Marshall's, Petco, Molly Branigan's, Starbucks, Chick-Fil-A, Robeks Fruit Smoothies and Healthy Eats, Mark Pi's Chinese Restaurant, Precision LensCrafters, Great Clips, Aspen Dental, Kay Jewelers, Verizon Wireless, Alltell and Famous Footwear.

if you look at the Rockport website, and go to the section about Lakewood, it's pretty funny, because it lists some restaurants and stores that are long gone and no longer exist ... and also doesn't list some places that have been around a while. Makes you wonder if the people putting the website together have actually ever BEEN in Lakewood.

born and raised in a suburb ... outer-ring to boot. And I live in an inner-ring suburb currently and probably into the far future. And while I'm not fond of the bland outer-ring suburb (and my growing up there is enough background to qualify me), I'd rather have a faux-disneyworld Legacy Village-Lifestyle Center type of thing than a horrific block of shops like that in Bainbridge. Yes, they all suck, but having a massive parking lot that is far too big for the needs of the stores is just wrong on so many levels. Why pave over so much? Why make it impossible to walk from one store to another? I think Cracker Park is annoying on some levels, but I do like the fact that you go there, you park, and you spend the rest of your time walking. In short, it's a place designed on a human scale ... unlike Bainbridge, which is solely designed for the car. Drive up, shop, drive to another store, shop, drive to another store. I actually had to go to this shopping center, and I was greatly offended by the design, because it was no design. It represented no thinking, no creativity, no effort. It was just a naked attempt to wring as much money as possible out of a nice piece of land with clear malice aforethought. And frankly, I also knew the old Westgate Mall. It sucked. I'm not saying the new one will be an improvement, but it's way better than the horror show down in Bainbridge. And like it or not, the lifestyle center is here to stay. Malls are dying. Even "nice" malls are having problems because a lot of the big national chain stores are pulling out to have their own separate stores in lifestyle centers ... and people are flocking to the lifestyle centers, because they're the newest rage, even though it's silly in a climate like ours. So instead of rending our clothes in fury over lifestyle centers, I say we recognize that they're going to be around for a while (especially since none of us have any power whatsoever, other than the ability to complain on an online forum), and praise those that use an intelligent design, where they really made an effort to be pedestrian-friendly and be an asset to a community, and rip on those horrible ones that show no creativity or sensitivity at all.

oh, it could be so very worse ... it's not a huge chunk of land, so they're at least trying to do something with it. Far worse, far FAR FAR worse is "The Market Place at Four Corners" (which already you know is going to be bad by the ultra-lame name they've given it) in Bainbridge Ohio. HUGE piece of land, it's just a big strip mall around the perimeter with a massive parking lot ... bigger than they'll EVER need ... in the middle. And because the shopping center's not finished yet, there's vast empty spaces between the stores, which are in clusters. Not only do you need a car to get there, but once there, you need a car just to go from shop to shop, because it is not set up at all for pedestrian traffic (I haven't seen anything this bad since that monstrosity at Avon Commons, which is completely designed for cars and cars only). It's right across the street from Geauga Lake, and I think the shopping center parking lot is bigger than the amusement park parking lot! It's just horrible. After seeing that, Westgate is going to be a brilliant design. Here, if you want to see horrid shopping mall designs: http://www.mcgillpropertygroup.com/ohio5.htm By the way, a blurb in the Sun papers mentioned that Target is due to open in July 2007 at Westgate, and other stores will open in fall, probably November and December. No telling what those other stores are, besides Lowe's.

Has anyone got any updates on this project? KJP? You seem to be the Man In The Know ... There's definitely construction underway and a number of steel skeletons are up, while there's been some earthmoving done for the roadway. But does anyone know what stores are going in? For a large project like this, it's really being kept low-key ... but that also eliminates any buzz that normally a project like this would generate.