imjustinjk

I would love for the 55 to have stops along the Shoreway. The population is there for it, but the Shoreway is a little crazy. They have weekend use stops at Edgewater. They’d also have to figure in slight schedule changes. I’m not sure if there’s many safe spots between Clifton and where they begin to stop downtown. 73rd Edgewater is one of the few safe spots. I personally would have added bike lanes and sidewalks with small pedestrian bridges or lighted crosswalks to the Shoreway. Something to that affect to make it feel like it’s part of the neighborhood. As a downtown resident I use the 55 and 26 frequently to go to Gordon Square or Lakewood. They’re good bus lines.

RTA’s service planning department is really responsive to suggestions. However, ODOT could have really done a lot more than they did to the shoreway. Without pedestrian infrastructure, cycling infrastructure, or traffic/speed calming measures along the now “boulevard” it probably isn’t viable to add stops. Hopefully more can be done than what has to connect all of these projects with the lake.

The region is already investing tens of millions in additional green space -- (1) Towpath and Lake Link trails to Wendy Park, (2) new Irishtown Bend and Canal Basin parks, (3) Red Line Greenway, (4) improvements to Edgewater, Huntington, and Euclid Beach, (5) and a potential massive expansion of Gordon Park east of Burke (if the stars align). And I guess the Metrohealth campus on West 25th, but that's more likely to be a grassy field than a "park". To say you are leaving Cleveland because they won't shut down Burke is just ridiculous. How about focusing that energy to push ODOT to re-align the Shoreway to reconnect Gordon Park. https://www.greenribbonlakefront.org/projects/gordonpark/ I’m not leaving the city because of Burke. Burke is just one of countless mistakes the city has made (including the Shoreway mentioned) that has no viable or working solution so the city will just remain substandard.

I’m a very serious person, haha. And it’s hard to sense jokes in black and white text. I love Cleveland, and would like to start roots here. I don’t want to live in the suburbs. Other cities along the Great Lakes have large dedicate green space along their lakefronts. Like Lincoln Park has 20+ million visitors a year. For some reason our region can’t see beyond what is currently. Sure we should fill in parking lots downtown. But we should also remove the giant ugly airport from our lake (and probably the stadium too). There’s no real benefit for the region as a whole to maintain Burke as it is now. I agree that any future public expenditure that will cost hundreds of millions of dollars needs to be investigated thoroughly before we approve another tax increase or extension. There fact we can only use a $300 million piece of infrastructure (FE Stadium) for 10 days a year +/- 5 for concerts is ridiculous. Imagine only being able to use the Innerbelt Bridge for 10 days a year! Burke Airport plays its role, corporate flights with ease of access to central city and University Circle, and also the Clinic Helicopters transporting ill patients (and body parts for transplant), uses it daily. These uses, help the economy, but have no real benefit to the community at large, so I see your point there. Does anyone know the future layout of the dumping dikes the Army Core will fill with dredged material from the Cuyahoga? Burke Airport and the peninsula on Gordan Park are all essential dredge Cuyahoga muck. Future dikes will only be expansions of the existing ones, so one day could there be a "New" lakefront beyond the airport? I wasn’t really “around” for the stadium debacle. To me in retrospect it would have seemingly made more sense to put it closer to the other stadiums or in the flats somewhere. Ive been wondering if the new corridor connecting the area to I-490 and thus Hopkins will make it a more viable option for CC and UH. One of my friends is a transplant pharmacist for UH who uses Burke. However in normal drive time Hopkins currently less than 10 minutes further than Burke. Not sure if that would be any quicker than taking carnegie to the inner belt. Do they use helicopters or ambulances to transport organs? Cleveland.com posted an article yesterday about a new federal spending package that will impact dredging and the army corps. I’m not sure how that will impact on the ongoing lawsuits and such. https://www.cleveland.com/expo/news/erry-2018/09/c83e44be807480/new-federal-spending-bill-cont.html#incart_river_mobile_index “The bill contains money to fund dredging so boats can navigate Cleveland harbor, and language to block the Army Corps of Engineers from dumping the material it dredges from the channel into Lake Erie.” There could have been other developments there, yes, but there could have been worse things. Burke would make a great park. The western end could be development where the terminal and hangers are. I don’t think Cleveland should aspire to be Chicago, but they have good examples. Even Buffalo and Miluake have lake front green space. Miluakee has some really great waterfront parks. The I-90 is a huge issue as far as access, but that could be remedied fairly simply. They’re already trying to improve pedestrian access. Along with Burke, parts of the Muni lots could be repurposed as well. I just think that we need to think long term regarding Burke and it’s potential redevelopment. Do you think that Burke as an airport is the best use for the space as it is? I don’t think that removing an airport with declining use will negatively impact Cleveland’s economy especially when a much larger airport that’s also underutilized is so close.

Also, Park East doesn’t really seem like the most appealing place to live...next to a car dealership, graveyard, and a bunch of mid range hotels and businesses surrounded by parking lots. For 2-3k a month in a commercial suburban wasteland who is their target audience? I guess being close to PF Chang’s is an amenity.

I’m a very serious person, haha. And it’s hard to sense jokes in black and white text. I love Cleveland, and would like to start roots here. I don’t want to live in the suburbs. Other cities along the Great Lakes have large dedicate green space along their lakefronts. Like Lincoln Park has 20+ million visitors a year. For some reason our region can’t see beyond what is currently. Sure we should fill in parking lots downtown. But we should also remove the giant ugly airport from our lake (and probably the stadium too). There’s no real benefit for the region as a whole to maintain Burke as it is now.

No. I don’t think that one of our biggest assets should be closed off from being public space/developable space. Can you explain to me why we need this additional airport when Hopkins can easily handle the traffic from the loss of Burke (less than 30,000 commercial flights)? In another thread for the new West Side High people complained that was a waste of prime lakefront space. This is massively larger and doesn’t have a salt mine between it and the lake. There’s numerous better uses for Burke than it being an airport.

Yes, this is unfortunate. Hopefully the Saigon and adjacent properties can make their way to someone who can redevelop the site. This intersection needs some TLC.

Way to bring in another sore subject for the city, haha. Mistakes on the lake. I’m 20 years we could have a really great lakefront. That would take a lot of forward thinking that I’m sure our city isn’t quite capable of right now.

Maybe you will be able to get the mayor's attention with this example. We could dedicate a namesake for Jackson. I’m sure he’ll serve for another 4 terms at least.

And unfortunately for Cleveland, the planners of yesteryear screwed us over and no we’re left with a city that needs to completely change the way it does and thinks about everything. Plenty of developers showed interest for Cleveland’s [underwhelming] lakefront plan. If Cleveland leadership even remotely considered the thought of alternatives for Burke developers would be all over that. Unfortunately the city maintains that it absolutely needs the airport for a bunch of untrue reasons.

Look at FEB. Wolstein has basically created an entirely new neighborhood downtown in underutilized space. And it’s still growing. Our city is stuck in the past and we have deep scars all over our city. Why keep perpetuating these wounds when we have so much potential? We don’t need Burke as a reliever airport because all airports combined have less traffic than Hopkins fifteen years ago. And we have a completely empty terminal on top of it. It’s a pipe dream for Burke to be re-utilized. Hopefully I’ll see it in my lifetime. But this is one of the many ongoing mistakes our city is making. It makes me not want to stay here. I live downtown and love it. But I’d rather live in more forward thinking city. I’ll stick it out for a few years, but you know. *shrug* just another well educated millennial wanting more from my city.

And a park is? What would Chicago be without grant park? That’s over 300 acres. Burke is 450. If we mimicked the size of Grant Park we’d still have 100+ acres for development. A lot of Chicago’s lakefront is park space with intermittent development between. There’s Lincoln Park - 1200 acres. Jackson park - 500 acres. I’d rather have ample green space along our lakefront than an airport. The city would be much more livable with green space. Cleveland’s inner city really lacks large concentrated green space. People wouldn’t live in many big cities if they didn’t have green space. :-\ Edit - sorry for two posts. I’m having issues posting on these forums from my phone.

It’s a process to close an airport. I think that the developer trying to squeeze in offices and apartments around the stadium and a tiny pier would be interested in Burke land. In my opinion I’d make 1/2-3/4 of it into a park. There would still be a lot of space left for development.

Wasting our lakefront space in downtown isn’t viable. Neither is the stadium. Two huge mistakes city leaders made. The 450 acres of lakefront space should be put to best use for the two million people who live in the region. Not the few thousand who can afford to fly in and out of Burke. Not for the occasional 737 or 757. There are plenty of very intelligent urban planners who can give you a laundry list of reasons why Burke isn’t the “highest and best use”.

This is entirely not true. Many of the planes that use BKL could not use CGF. Not all planes are tiny turboprops or small business jets... I’m sure there is a solution. Cuyahoga County Airport runway is nearly as long as BKL and there’s room to extend it. Plus, Hopkins is underutilized and has plenty of room. “According to the Federal Aviation Administration's Air Traffic Activity Data Base System (ATADS), Burke had 100,321 takeoffs and landings in 2000. By 2010, that number was down to 53,987. Last year, 2017, it had basically dropped off to 38,571. So between 2000 and 2017, Burke's flight numbers have dropped by 62 percent. Those are striking numbers made even more striking by this fact: About a third of those 38,571 takeoffs and landings are for the pilot flight schools located at Burke, which has nothing to do with business, travel or shipping of goods.” Keeping it open for 25,000 flights a year. Hopkins has 122K in 2017 flights down from 332K in 2000. Cuyahoga is down from 65k in 2000 to 20k in 2017. Keeping 450 acres on prime downtown lakefront land reserved for a useless airport is one of the many mistakes Cleveland has made.

This is true. I would still begin the process of removing the airport. And redevelop the space as geeen space with space reserved for future development. We have to plan for the future, not wait for it to happen. There’s already plans for lakefront development (Cumberland). Harbor Vernandas could have been a taller building.

Here's what Burke looks like compared to Central Park in Manhattan. https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/lies-damn-lies-and-the-450-acres-of-prime-lakefront-real-estate-that-is-burke-lakefront-airport/Content?oid=16931820 Hopefully as our city continues to develop they’ll realize that we don’t need this airport. All of the lies and excuses for keeping it open are pathetic. The county airport in Richmond Hts can sustain both its traffic and Burke traffic. Or the entire empty terminal at Hopkins. So many cities have utilized former airports and turned them into great developments. Mueller in Austin and Stapleton in Austin are great examples. A fraction of Burke could be turned into prime downtown development that would surely attract investors. A large portion could be reused for public space. Cleveland officials are stuck in the past, which is why as a soon to be MUPD graduate from CSU I’m not sure if I want to stick around.

This would work well in a lot of cities. I'm sure the general public here would be disappointed that they're not getting a full size store, but I really like it. Seems like a more traditional furniture store, like a Pottery Barn or whatever versus a mega big box store. Its less than 10K sq ft, which is a fraction of the size of a normal store that's hundreds of thousands of square feet. Although I'm sure it would be tested in larger markets here first, yay Cleveland.

Wouldn't surprise me from personal experiences in Townhall, and why I won't visit them again.

Has IKEA tried an urban format because they're very big on the massive maze-like structures set across acres of flat surface parking. I don't think I've been to an Ikea with vertical parking. However, plenty of stores are trying out smaller urban formats.

I don't think we need a clothing mall in that space per se. I'd like to see a smaller format big box store like Target, which could take up a lot of space. They're about 40,000 Sq Ft compared to 150,000. An Apple store could possibly do well there. There's one in Westlake, Woodmere, and Akron? A central location could do very well to serve the 100k+ day time working population, nearby neighborhoods, and inner suburbs. The space is really challenging, especially as the retail landscape is completely changing. It also has different challenges being an urban mall compared to a suburban mall, where it can't necessarily be repurposed in to residential space or a warehouse Amazon type space. Look at what Mentor is trying to do. They put in Round 1 in the former Men's Dillards. The space has a lot of challenges, but also a lot of potential.

A birdie told me that Voss might consider expanding their space and adding workers. Hope that's true. I’ve heard that they might move locations because the building isn’t working for them as they grow?

I’m hoping that the owner of the squat building on the corner of Ghwring and Abbey will sell. His property was for sale at one point. It sounds like he’s holding out for more money. The lot that Voss owns and the large WS market lot could also stand to be developed.

I went last night and spoke with Dan and the architect. They really don’t want a glut of parking. Often times community leaders and shareholders mandate projects to have a minimum amount of parking spaces. I was told that the garage spaces could eventually become other uses like apartments if we ever get past auto dependency (unlikely). The only concerns I heard from residents was about the plans to reconfigure Ghering and access to Tremont because many residents use it as a shortcut to drive through? Dan also said they’re trying to work with RTA to improve access to the rapid station. They sounded committed to TOD. I’m interested to see how the plans evolve.