imjustinjk

Are there any formal plans or anything from Kertesz? I know Haken owns Saigon, but not much has happened yet.

The fight that really needs to be fought is the razing of those car lots next door. Similar block size could support a fairly large mixed use project. The property values of the houses behind them, along Tillman, aren't very high. Half the lots are seemingly vacant as is. Plus the space at the corner of Detroit & W 54th is already for sale. I think if the right developer came in and really wanted to make something on that "super block" west of the school there could be something similarly as great as what could have been on the school lot. A mixed use development there + the school would really strengthen that section of the neighborhood. The historic buildings, and the Center for Family and Children, could use some sprucing up. In the not too distant future there could really be a strong connection between Gordon Square and W. 25th. Development is already moving west in "Hinge Town".

Accoridng to this article on Crain’s floors two through five of the interior of the building will be parking and subsequent floors will be an atrium for apartments. I think that’s still the latest. I guess that the frosted glass windows will be consolidated to the lower floors. Better than nothing, but not ideal. http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2018/05/landmarks_commission_oks_may_c.html

KJP[/member] I was out here for work today. They’ve made good progress. I’m so glad that tucked parking has become the norm for new developments. The used car lot that was there before was a blight.

Small detail that I’ve been wondering about. I tried to do a search, but didn’t pull anything up. Are they going to try to save the historic windows with the M on them? I love the frosted company logo on the windows and hope that it’s a detail kept throughout.

I’m assuming the renovation has begun? The Cleveland.com article stated late summer / early fall.

Are you seeing less people moving into the lakewood neighborhood area or the cleveland state neighborhood area? I think that he’s saying less in Lakewood, which makes sense. Cleveland State has been working tirelessly to become a more traditional campus in the sense that more people live within or very nearby to campus. They no longer want to be a commuter school. They were really smart to let private developers provide student housing. The more projects we see like The Edge, I think, less students will want to live in places like Lakewood. I think that downtown is small enough too that if any truly affordable housing project arises that appeals to millennials will get CSU students. My next move is to find an apartment in the warehouse district next summer. I’d totally live in FEB P3 if they were open now.

According to Properties Magazine the Standard Building has 281 units of which 60% are 1br. So, that's 167 1br and 114 2br. According to the leasing site there are about 100 1br available and 32 2br available. That's makes 1 br occupancy about 43% and 2br occupancy 72%. Data sources: http://digital.propertiesmag.com/publication/?i=503886&p=&pn=#{%22issue_id%22:503886,%22page%22:0} https://www.thestandardcle.com/ My feeling is that Kennect has badly overestimated the demand for micro-apartments in a part of Cleveland that doesn't attract many student residents. (Another reason to extend the Waterfront Line to CSU?) 2 bedrooms are generally more affordable than a 1 bedroom. 1 person in a 1200$ apartment or 2 in a 1600$ apartment? Also, as a graduate student at Cleveland State I live near E. 4th and know quite a few other grad students who live further away from campus. The Warehouse District is fun, so I know a lot of people who want to live close to the bars. I think if there were more affordable options than an 1800$ 1 bedroom in the flats more students would live there. I also know a lot of students live in Lakewood or Cleveland Heights because it’s more affordable. I don’t think the flats is a terribly long commute, especially since you can walk up the hill and catch the E/C Line until 11. If a 400 square foot apartment had a walk in closet and was under 1000$ I’d be all for that. My loft “1 bedroom” is 600 sq ft at just over 800$.

"Luxury real estate" is artificially affordable in Cleveland due to the tax abatement for better or worse.

That's so Euro of you! :) Or old-Cleveland, circa 1920's. I’m on bored with this. Tall towers aren’t the end all be able. Maybe a few more downtown, but midtown, and the inner west side are best suited to be filled with shorter buildings.

It may be dated, but at least they put some thought into aesthetics when they built the thing - most garages downtown seem are just big ugly gray boxes. At least the garage above the Tilted Kilt is a big ugly tan box and not gray! :) Cleveland has quite a few ugly parking garages. My least favorite are the blank box tower city parking garage and the 55 Public Sq parkinging garage which unfortunately will not see new life in the near future as K&D pulled out. The city seems to be fighting for more attractive garage spaces with no dead zones (they pushed for street front retail at the Lumen).

From the train station today:

That was good. They also mentioned the theater that everyone here wants to burn down. :D haha I don’t want it to burn down, but I do go to valley view or rocky river to watch movies even though I live downtown.

I live next door and I’ve never even heard of it. Although I do cycling at school. Yikes.

If downtown was designed more so for pedestrians, bikes and transit, thereby making a more attractive downtown, I doubt that most downtown workers would want to drive. Seattle, for example, has done remarkable things to make its downtown more human scale and improve non-auto access. It was rewarded by having 50 percent of its CBD workers commute by transit. Cleveland doesn't even have a protected bike lane yet and has cut more transit service than any major city in the 2000s. Too many of its sidewalks are lined with brutalist, pedestrian-impenetrable walls. Adding driveways off major thoroughfares will worsen the pedestrian experience. If you design your downtown for cars, you get cars. And they make your downtown inhospitable. If you design your downtown for people, they will use your sidewalks and make downtown a joy to stroll in. That's why I'm opposed to having a driveway off East 9th. Cleveland is a couple decades behind. They’ll catch up eventually.

Fair point but a landlord who makes any effort to attract tenants would be a huge upgrade. My company asked for a proposal for leasing 4,000 sqf in the Tower last year and it wasn't remotely competitive. Clearly they weren't investing in the property. In terms of parking, UO members don't want to hear it but most downtown workers want to drive. Adding parking by converting zombie retail space isn't a bad thing. The garage entrance is off E. 12th Not all downtown workers want to drive. But transit doesn’t hold up. Unless you live by a nice park n ride or in the heights by rail it isn’t feasible. Downtown really doesn’t need more parking, but it is what it is. Cleveland has made strides in preventing street level/empty walls of parking. I’m not familiar with the stouffers space though...if it faces a street or not?

Additionally, by the very nature of the world we live in, its typically not a good look for adults to go roaming around high schools anyways. I understand and appreciate investing in education, but I think if they would've sold that land for development - about which they were approached directly - they would have had even more money to spend on a school in a more appropriate location Where would you propose it have gone? What would have went in its place? Tax abated luxury townhomes (that are actually taking money from CMSD). A luxury mixed use development? I think a school in this location will serve the community well. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4849632,-81.7154914,234m/data=!3m1!1e3 You repurpose Garret Morgan, limit the parking spaces here to just serve faculty & staff, and make this a TRUE campus, and CMSD can redeem the space from the charter school. You could have a 3-4 building academic campus, as fabric of a neighborhood and community, centered around the neighborhood and not a thoroughfare. That could have worked. CMSD was seemingly very dead set on having a school remain on this location from what I’ve read. However, there is still plenty of developable space along Detroit and the school can become integrated well as this area grows. The used car dealerships, squat buildings, and single family homes immediately to the west can be redeveloped. There’s plenty of parking lots and smaller, underutilized buildings, etc. in both directions.

Additionally, by the very nature of the world we live in, its typically not a good look for adults to go roaming around high schools anyways. I understand and appreciate investing in education, but I think if they would've sold that land for development - about which they were approached directly - they would have had even more money to spend on a school in a more appropriate location Where would you propose it have gone? What would have went in its place? Tax abated luxury townhomes (that are actually taking money from CMSD). A luxury mixed use development? I think a school in this location will serve the community well.

School plans are seemingly more difficult to find than other projects. I’m not sure why. KJP made a post last year with more plans and details. I don’t think they’ve changed and they seem to take up the entire former lot. https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php?topic=653.2490

I walk past this every day. It’s such an eyesore. According to the Cleveland.com article posted in December, construction is supposed to begin this week.

The change from $400 million to $50 million is drastic. I wonder if that will have a positive impact on potential projects downtown such as Weston’s warehouse plans. Could potentially spark more development. $50 million is a lot lower - and could have applied to the Beacon and The Lumen? Hopefully it makes it through.

My bad! Thanks for the correction. I should know this I just worked on a project for school in that area and went past the construction site a handful of times.

There’s a newer elementary school being constructed to the south and west of this high school. The Waverly School on W. 74th. It’s opening for this fall. http://www.iconohio.com/construction-management-at-risk/cmsd-waverly-k8.aspx

The high school will have a smaller foot print. It’s well designed with buildigs abutting the street along Detroit and W 45th - parking tucked in back. https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/05/plans_for_new_west_side_high_s.html Smaller neighborhood schools are important.