Cheryl0047

I have an agenda? Wow, that's good. I do, it was and still is to look at the streetcar as a whole project with all its implications, not just a cookie cutter design that will automatically work as it has in Portland with Portland dynamics, because we are Cincinnati and have a whole different set of social and economic dynamics that in no way mimic Portland's. Period. End of agenda. I never hid the fact that I co-owned a real estate development company, I said that in the beginning. Other than the personal economic development experience office parks have nothing in common with community revitalization and therefore I offer my sincere apologies, I missed the point of the obvious slam. I also mentioned the fact that my education background is a Masters Education in Community Planning and Economic Development, at University of Cincinnati, DAAP - School of Planning, and that I have been involved on a voluntary basis for several years working in revitalization of communities. So what? I am both experienced and educated about what I am talking about? What a crime. Oh my, did I forget to mention that I lived downtown too? Gee, I must be really demented as well. I seem to be one of very few who backed up every thing I said with facts to support it, and instead of a decent debate where I could have changed my mind, I have a snotty attitude? Okay, you win, now what? You want me to agree with you and applaude your attitudes? Hah! LOL! What a novel idea, call me names and then expect me to agree with what you have to say, and we wonder why Cincinnati can't seem to get ahead.

Very nice article UncleRandal. As a fellow UC DAAP'er I too consider myself part of that creative class and I do not happen to agree with you. Will you be able to afford a place downtown after your graduation so you can ride to Findlay to shop? Or, like the majority of students, will you head off to parts unknown where the job is offered and the paycheck signed? If you stay, you will be one of a handful of entry level employees that more than likely will not be able to live downtown and is this what we want to base future streetcar ridership numbers on? It's interesting that the streetcar proposal has so many students backing it, considering it will take several years to build and by then, I really wonder who will still be around......oh yeah, that would probably be me. My children thankfully are all living in Cincinnati now - they can't afford to live downtown. I can only hope this thing ends up the humongous success that is being sold to the public and does not force out people that help make downtown Cincinnati dynamic currently. Me? I'll believe it when I see it, Cincinnati seems to be overlooking too many issues and as usual we'll get all gung-ho, dump a ton of money on a project and build it bigger and better than anyone else. Unfortunatley, no project will seamlessly turn a town on its end with economic growth without causing other things to happen. There are always underlying social forces and issues that have to be dealt with. I had always hoped that Cincinnati could be a blend of diversity, cultures, and unique architecture, a destination place like no other in the United States. Instead, it seems we are destined to become a stale whitebread community of gentrification with a Starbucks on every corner. When you are in Atlanta, Portland, or NYC with your feet on your desk in the corner office of the penthouse, I'll still be here dealing with what you and the council members who are no longer in office left me. Aren't I the lucky one. I just hope we can slow this down just long enough to take into consideration who will be affected before we jump in with both feet and steam-roller through neighborhoods.

Somehow I do not believe calling people ignorant will win proponents and influence anyone except to go out of their way to put up hurdles.

Questions 1) The numbers regarding returns on investment in the Streetcar Proposal seem to be based on the specific econonmic dynamics of the City of Portland. While they look impressive what are the numbers based on the City of Cincinnati as it stands today? In other words, if we were to invest $1.2 million in this project right now, what is the bottom line return in this city as it stands today without any additional economic base. These numbers would indicate the worse case scenario and can we maintain a successful system if things do not change at all? 2) What is the target rider-ship for the Cincinnati Streetcar and where are we primarily transporting them to and from, and why? Does the Cincinnati Streetcar Proposal fill a need that is not currently being met and what are the indications of this? 3) What will be the motivation to get people out of other modes of transportation and onto the streetcar in the first place, given that Cincinnati currently does not have the rider-ship base that Portland had to begin with, or an established wealth of economic base, as well as safety and walk-ability issues still representing challenges? 4) What will make this mode of transportation more convenient than others currently available given the dynamics present today in downtown Cincinnati? 5) Is there a Plan B? Can we perhaps initiate a route that will address the above issues on a smaller scale first that could be a resounding success by transporting people to and from the places they are already going and then add other routes?

I have better things to do with my time than sit around and make up facts, but hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do not believe that I would own 750,000 square feet of commercial/warehouse space and have a Masters education in Community Planning if I did that. I am smart enough to know that if I am going to argue a point I better have done all my homework first. The only on-line link I can give you is www.census.gov, I am not sure how many of the reports and documents out of my two foot stack are actually on-line, forgive me or not, I am not going to go through them and look for you. Most of my docs came directly from Portland Metro, TriMet, and the Portland Planning Commission, not to mention the pages and pages of table print-outs from the Census Bureau. I believe that the Downtown Cincinnati, Inc. yearly city reports are on line though - I used 2006, I m sorry I am not sure what the web address is. I could also send you a copy of my entire report (cited and with complete references), for a fee. I will be out of town at the time of Tuesday's meeting, each of the members of the City Council Economic Development Committee will have one though. I said in the beginning that my biggest concern with the streetcar is making sure all angles are covered ahead of time before $102 million dollars is spent. The proposal information being presented to the public leaves out some very pertinent facts making it appear much different than what it is. I do not know of anyone that would buy a $102 million dollar house if they were knowledge-able enough to know that the foundation of it was not stable. Most would hope that an inspection would reveal it. Well, I just told you to be very careful about your purchase because it's going to require a lot more work than what the outside appearance looks like. It's totally your choice to believe it or not. Yes, Cincinnati is beginning to gain some momentum we haven't had in all the years I have lived here, which is good. I've only asked you to consider some other facts. I want to do everything in my power to make sure we do not have a $102 million dollar flop in our lap that we have to recover from. It seems that many people are still shaking their heads, or cringing, about Paul Brown Stadium, and come on, ten years and still no definite Banks plan - yeah, yeah I'm optimistic, give it a few more days. 3CDC has made quite a difference in some ways and not so much in others, a similar project in Pittsburg a few years ago remains mostly vacant still today (I have a few pages of references on this fact too), and so for me at least, the verdict is still out on this latest Cincinnati venture. I will be the first to admit that a streetcar would be a wonderful addition in the not so distant future, I simply want a good return on the investment and a "build it and they will come" (Field of Dreams, 1989) attitude won't get that.

Let me just say I wasn't prepared for the bombardment of questions and demands about my not being sold on this proposal because I thought, and still do, that we need to put some other things in place first for the "little engine that could" to chug into place within the Cincinnati landscape – The Banks would be a great start. I apologize for my lack of time to get to all the questions earlier, had I known this was to become a full time commitment my timing would have been better, this grilling has been worse than the work I had to do for my Masters! The grade specs I mentioned before came directly from the streetcar manufacturer, Vine street grade number came from a presentation given to the Downtown Residents Council, and the population figures I mentioned earlier, and below again, come directly from the U.S. Census, Downtown Cincinnati, Inc., and Portland Development Commission, as well as the new ones below. My apologies that my tables are not copying well. Portland Cincinnati Population CBD 1990 9,528 3,838 2000 12,902 3,189 2006 20,000 7,784 Population City 1990 437,319 364,040 1997 503,760 340,311 2000 529,121 331,285 2006 539,950 302,610 Household Units 1990 198,308 169,012 City 2000 237,307 166,012 2006 251,348 166,591 Owner Occupied 1990 99,206 59,172 City 2000 124,767 57,715 2006 134,101 55,442 Renter Occupied 1990 88,062 95,170 City 2000 98,970 90,380 2006 100,830 75,617 Median Home Value 1990 $59,200 $61,900 City 2000 $154,900 $93,000 2006 $266,800 $123,800 Top Industries and Employees: Intel Corporation 15,000 Providence Health System 12,800 Fred Meyer, Inc. 10,744 Legacy Health System, 7,158 Louisiana-Pacific 7,100 Nike 7,000 Kaiser Permanente 6,725 Tektronix 4,359 Back to the Pearl District: The highway ramp (I-405) I mentioned earlier, which split the district in half, was relocated in the 1980’s and artists started filtering into the empty loft space that became available. Two major mixed-use housing projects are responsible for the area flourishing today and BOTH were completed before the streetcar system went in. In 1994, 34 acres were bought by Hoyt Street Properties, and in 2000, the Brewery Development Company bought five blocks. Portland has had forty years of planning to put all of this in place, and now have a 2040 Plan in place. As the wholesale, financial, and medical center for much of the state, both state and regional governments work in tandem with Portland City government. Comprehensive plans for suburban communities have to comply with the Urban Boundary Land Use Laws. Also, most of the growth for Portland City was caused by annexation of surrounding communities according to Portland Metro and the Development Commission. Lastly, for lack of a more PC way of stating this, the Metropolitan Housing Rules moved undesirable population out of the downtown by giving them new housing choices throughout the suburbs allowing for a renewed sense of safety downtown, which in turn filled the sidewalks with people, which leads to the opening of the streetrcar system.

I have only a few minutes to post in reply to some of the questions: Portland, in an attempt to contain sprawl and industry, adopted a set of land-use planning laws in 1973 that set an urban growth boundary, promoted utilization of urban land wisely, and protected it's natural resources. These laws encompassed three levels of planning: State, Region, and City. In 1978 the MAX Light Rail line plan was initiated. Since this concept began $6 Billion in development has grown along its lines. In 1980, an elevated highway ramp was demolished within the Warehouse/Light Industry sector of the city, opening up the area for future development. (Now known as the Pearl District) In the 1990's Portland and its Suburbs became more economically integrated. Metropolitan Housing Rules insured low income housing throughout the region giving a choice of residence location to minority household earners throughout Portland. In 1991, talks began about the Streetcar system being able to move those from Max throughout the city proper. 2001, Streetcar system opened. CBD: City: Population Portland Cincinnati Portland Cincinnati 1990 9,528 3,838 1997 503,760 340,311 2000 12,902 3,189 2000 529,121 331,285 2006 539,950 302,616 Sorry, more later.

Portland's Central Business District is 1.8 sq miles while Cincinnati's is .8 square miles, which is what my figures are based on. Even if Cincinnati downtown was expanded to match Portland's, Portland still has more density and a more stable economic environment that warrants a streetcar system to move the people coming into the city by light-rail, and from one side to another, which is my whole point. And John - Yes, so much to say, so little time....... by the way thanks for the compliment, yes it would indeed be a great opportunity to spend eleven years planning anything, especially with the economic base that Portland had initially. No, we are not building atomic bombs, nor do cookie-cutter approaches work for all dynamics so I will hold my ground on the “easily transferable” concept, we are talking economics here and economics are dependent on the dynamics of a community, not a streetcar. I would go back and double check my numbers, however I was comparing apples to apples, not 2000 demographics of Cincinnati to 2007 stats of Portland, and Cincinnati stats are across the map these dys dependent on who is doing the reporting. Portland was already on-track growth-wise for those numbers without the addition of the streetcar so it is highly debate-able how much growth was actually caused by it. Regardless of how the system is measured, Portland operates at a deficit each year with three times as many people and a viable economic base. Conservative or not, the figures being utilized for this proposal have questionable accuracy for how this proposal is being sold, especially given Cincinnati’s track record for on time and on budget ventures. I would personally compare the Pearl District with the Brewery District. It was primarily a warehouse area where OTR is primarily residential. Although block-wise they are similar Portland’s Pearl District is 100 blocks while OTR is 106. I could be mistaken, I believe that OTR also has a cultural history that Pearl does not. I was referring to all the new restaurants opening downtown being reported as a sign of stable economic development and viability for Cincinnati. I would like to know how a streetcar single-handedly repopulates downtown. I am confused as to the relationship drawn between the two. The last info I saw was that Vine Street was about twice the grade that streetcars could handle easily. I am not an engineer in any way, shape, or form, if I recall correctly the low model cars being touted for the Cincinnati proposal are not suited for more than a 6% grade because of safety issues. I also believe that the hill you are talking about in Portland is the one up to Portland State where the tracks both coming and going are side by side indicating perhaps some extra infrastructure to accomodate the climb, now that might be an interesting addition to Vine given that the tracks are laid in the road. Traffic is traffic and when traffic is at a standstill, so is the streetcar, so what difference does it make that it has 130 people on board and six doors? You are assuming it will take six buses off the road as long as the people that rode those buses are now riding the streetcar because it is more convenient which isn’t necessarily the case. Plus, I am not sure how to figure in all the commuters that work in downtown that WILL NOT be riding the streetcar, so how does this system exactly take cars off the road? Traffic seems to be going into downtown and out of downtown at peak rush hours in the AM and PM. A streetcar does not figure into this scenario, nor does it help those that live downtown and work or do business in the suburbs. Now, if one would consider the amount of people coming into Portland and leaving Portland at peak rush hours via the light-rail system, then a streetcar system becomes apart of a transit solution to get them from one place to another. Where are we going to get all these people that will ride and support this system on a regular enough basis to warrant extending it? If phase one flops, there will be no other phases. I believe it would be prudent to plan, er sorry, figure these things out first in order that phase one is a resounding success and additions then become "no-brainers". You are right we have been doing such a good job of marketing, haven’t we? That must be why we have such an influx of people moving into downtown Cincinnati for business and a boatload of vacant office and residential space that is growing daily – you missed that as well as a planner I am in development too. Guess I’ve had my head in the sand for twenty-five years. I guess that with the headlines reading Cincinnati builds streetcar system, people and business will just come flocking in. Silly me for thinking that a first option would be to have a very good economic base in place as well as a strategic plan of some sort - did I forget to mention that Portland Oregon is now finishing up its Plan for 2040? I am not sure what plan Cincinnati is following but it seems that without a plan any fast path will get us "there", where ever there is. I also thought it was a higher density that would put riders on a streetcar in the first place, not the other way around. I must be delirious to have put the horse BEFORE the cart. Not to mention that creating a highly walk-able and perceptively safe environment all around an entire proposed route first is what usually spurs economic growth.

I am not sold on the idea of spending $1.2 million on a streetcar system. I have sat through numerous presentations, researched everything I could get my hands on, and spent time in Portland both riding the system, researching their CBD (Central Business District) demographics, and talking with the folks in the Portland Metro Planning Department. What concerns me are the facts that do not seem to be addressed regarding Cincinnati. Portland had both a lightrail system and an economically viable economy BEFORE they initiated talk about a streetcar. They spent eleven years planning - started the first feasibility study in 1990, opened the first line in 2001. Portland's downtown population, according to 2000 census figures, is approximately 13,000 and Cincinnati's is 3200 (contested). They have approximately 800 condos vs Cincinnati's 400, and approximately 7300 rental units vs Cincinnati's 3700. Other pertinent numbers of concern: Portland built 2.4 miles of track after almost ten years of planning, while Cincinnati is proposing 3.9 miles of track in three years or less. Portland's yearly operating costs are $2.7 million for that 2.4 miles of track and TriMet (Portland's version of SORTA) operates at a continual deficit with three times the downtown population that Cincinnati has. I am not sure then how Cincinnati officials believe that they can operate almost twice the amount of track for the $2.0 - $2.7 million they are estimating. Do we know something that Portland doesn't after their six years of operating the system? Portland also had a very sustainable and viable downtown econony BEFORE the streetcar line opened. The Pearl District manufacturing sector (supposedly similar to Over-the-Rhine) was opened to development because of the demolition of a highway off-ramp, not the streetcar system, as I have heard reported. In my education and experience new restaurants are not a sign of economic viability, although they are a good start, they are the easiest businesses to enter into the market and as such they are also the first to go and while all the new restaurants make downtown Cincinnati look viable, they cannot economically sustain it. I also am at a loss as to how a streetcar system will tie downtown with our incline communities without substantial regrading of steep streets. A streetcar is not a substitution for light rail and unless the manuafacturer's have come up with a bigger better push behind these cars they are not going to make it up the hills to Uptown (Clifton), Mt. Auburn, Mt. Adams, or Price Hill. My last concern is hearing how convenient this sytem is. Anyone driving in traffic in downtown Cincinnati knows how difficult it is to get around. Well folks, the streetcars drive the same streets and have the same lights and stop and go issues that buses, cabs, and other vehicles do. While putting extra streetcars on-line during peak hours sounds really good, the fact of the matter is it doesn't make the system any faster, perhaps one just feels better because instead of standing at the stop waiting, one is actually stuck on the car waiting and appears to be going somewhere. If Cincinnati could find $102 million dollars to spend on the city, it could be better spent on marketing the assets that we already have to build a more substantial economic base, then we could plan a streetcar system to enhance that. Our image needs a significant shot in the arm not only to those living across the nation, but to our own suburbs as well and rushing to build a streetcar system now will not remedy that.

In reference to CityLink....as someone who has spent a great deal of time researching the inner city and how it all fits together, I too am concerned with an entity - regardless of origins - coming into the neighborhood with a "sure cure for what ails us" without consulting the people who live in the community. Although the plan sounds good, and I have to admit they have done quite a bit of research, they haven't done the one thing to gain acceptance and secure any type of success....talk to the people they will directly involve. If you go online and look at the credentials of CityLink, they are all about what they will do and who they are affiliated with, there is no mention of what their accomplishments are. My aplologies, but running a P&G program has nothing to do with the day to day operation of a social service facitlity and I don't really care what church anyone belongs to, this isn't about religion. My question is, if it's going to take $12 to purchase a facility, wouldn't it better to put that $12 million into programs already in place, especially when the biggest issue with agencies already in the neighborhood is funding to do what they need to do? Just one opinion, I'm not impressed.