lucky

Although I'm not exactly a regular on this board I may show up just out of curiosity.

That's certainly great news. Are there any radio stations that might carry his full speech?

Well, if the citizenry doesn't want it I guess the only thing left to do is tell Wexner there will be an express train from OSU into Easton. I'll bet something would happen then. As much as I would love extensive light rail in Columbus I have to wonder at the utility of making all the stations along I-71. For example, if you diverted off at 17th onto Summit/Third that still leaves you with a fair walk over to High St. How would they deal w/ N. 4TH St crossing? Looking north of 17th, where would you put stations? Morse Rd? Better than no light rail at all I guess. I do think you are right on the money in your assessment of the need for a large, bold plan in which the majority could imagine a benefit for themselves. The Los Angeles subway system is nothing if not bold.

Maybe I've overlooked it but where, in theory, would they put the rails for a North/South line from Clintonville into downtown? I live in Clintonville and I am having difficulty envisioning anywhere near enough to High St for a line to be placed short of running it down the middle of High St on a platform. Airport to downtown to maybe the south-western edge of OSU near the Hospital and 315 might work.

As my initial interest is in the inner-ring suburbs of Cleveland I read with great interest this report <a href="http://www.lkwdpl.org/focus/wagnerstudy.pdf">Addressing the Difficulties of Inner-Ring Suburbs: A Case Study of Lakewood, Ohio</a>. The study was published in early 2002 using data up till 2000 and references a quote that caught my interest, “nowhere to build, not much left to tax”. The document is rather long but I thought it presented some useful questions with which to look at not only Lakewood but other neighborhoods in the city. Briefly, the study defines a number of characteristics of a city/suburb and examines them in the context of whether or not these characteristics follow observed national trends of Inner-ring Suburbs. These national trends have generally been negative, population decreasing, crime increasing, infrastructure and housing deteriorating etc. In the case of Lakewood the study groups the characteristics into 3 categories: 1. DOES follow Inner-ring Suburb Trends: Population, Racial Diversification, Infrastructure, Crime 2. CLOSE to Inner-ring Suburb Trends: Population Age, Schools, Economic Patterns, Finance and Budgeting 3. DOES NOT follow Inner-ring Suburb Trends: Housing Although my interest is in all the neighborhoods of Cleveland I am curious as to how Lakewood is perceived to be progressing 5 years after the last data set used in the study. Could I assume anything about the other Inner-ring suburbs of Cleveland both from this study and also from your impressions on the current state of Lakewood? I have spent the past few weekends driving around Cleveland so this really isn't a purely remote research project on my part but this forum seems to be a great mechanism for getting up to speed on the reality of things. I do appreciate all your comments.

I spent quite a bit of time up at the Flats in like '91 and '92 at Nautica and Peabody's but have only driven through there once during the day since. Why is it semi-abandoned now? From what I remember the only thing I didn't like so much was that there seemed to be a few too many tacky frat-boy attracting bars which over time I think may have undermined the location's appeal. What elements make for a 'great' city in your mind and which of those elements are lacking in Cleveland? Which one or two elements is the most critical?

I would certainly agree that many of the issues that Columbus faces are common to other U.S. cities at this point in time but I suppose the net I am casting here is an attempt to perhaps catch some opinions on the futures of both cities. I'm in a position of looking to buy a house sometime in the next couple years and it seems fairly certain I'll be staying in Ohio. The question is on which horse do I place my bet so comparisons are interesting to me. For the most part I also think Columbus is on the right track in many areas but as an outsider I don't yet really have a good sense of how Cleveland is heading into the next 10-20 years. Cleveland grew larger sooner and in many ways seems to have a head start on Columbus culturally and socially simply due to overall metro population and all the interesting places and institutions that served a larger population for a longer period of time. It really isn't a question of what city is the bestest or anything like that...more along the lines as to which city is genuinely best equipped to handle the next 20 years. I doubt if anyone could authoritatively answer that question but it is an interesting one to me nonetheless. Depending on the individual question I pose to myself sometimes Columbus is declining, improving or peaking. What are the right questions to ask when examining the question of overall quality of life predictions in a given city?

As much as previous comments and the original article have played up the positive aspects of Columbus expansion my concerns do seem to intersect with the phrase 'boomtown' that was used here earlier. I really have no professional expertise in urban planning but it certainly seems to me that much of what has been built in Columbus isn't going to age gracefully. Much of the more appealing old city core has been used up and occupied and virtually nothing of lasting architectural and aesthetic appeal has been built outside the core. At the moment, Columbus is newer and cleaner but that mega condo complex with the white vinyl siding up the street is going to be substantially less appealing to be in or around in 10 years time. Energy prices do seem to be a real concern for Columbus. It is as auto-dependent a city as there ever was and it seems that a great deal of the corporate growth has occurred around the outerbelt. While there seems to be no end to Columbus' willingness to construct new stadiums they have invested basically nothing at all into mass transit. As a prospective homeowner I wonder if Columbus traded long-term planning for a quick buck. Some of the industries such as government, healthcare, edumacation, and trucking seem to be relatively safe but I often have the sense that much of the corporate growth is from the types of companies that will split the minute some other town makes them a better tax deal. Columbus does have a great many young people but my experience has been that somewhere between 80-90% of them want to leave if possible. OSU and the surrounding universities are a great asset no doubt but Columbus still seems to be a town that people want to graduate from rather than to. Again, these are just some random thoughts and some of my concerns may be unjustified. I'm sure Cleveland has some serious problems as well. I'm curious if anyone has lived in both cities for an extended period?

Old thread I guess but it seems like some of the discussion in this thread involved some topics I've become interested in lately. I've only been reading this board for a couple weeks now and wouldn't mind some more discussion as I have lived in Columbus off and on for about 12 years and have recently started thinking of moving to Cleveland. I've also lived in Los Angeles and Orange County so I'm familiar with both sprawl and with SPRAWL. I grew up in Canton so I am a 'pop' native but was ridiculed into saying 'soda' at some point. I telecommute so a job is not really the issue as much as general quality of life. I like Columbus and the city has been pretty good to me but lately I am just finding it rather dull and thought a change of pace might do me good. The old core of Columbus has some very nice spots(especially German Village) and I can certainly think of a thousand towns that are a lot worse than Columbus but once you get a few blocks east or west of that five mile stretch of High Street there isn't a whole lot going on except for identical strip malls. I exaggerate of course but as an outsider with an eye on Cleveland here are some of the things that at least seem appealing from a distance: 1. It's on the lake so you have that whole water thing going for you. 2. It at least appears that you have something resembling a useful light rail system. 3. Overall larger stock of nice older houses than Columbus. Real estate seems awfully reasonable compared to even Columbus, not to mention nationally. 4. Three professional sports teams as opposed to OSU football. On the map it looks like your rail system gets pretty close to all three of those teams. 5. What certainly appears to be at least twice the entertainment. Columbus may get some of the stadium rock acts now and then but if you pick up a Scene or Free Times as compared to the Other Paper or Alive it is immediately apparent where the majority of traveling musicians are stopping in Ohio. I think maybe they all just stop there as a pilgrimage for the "Hello Cleveland!" line from Spinal Tap. 6. Judging strictly by media outlets I would have to say that Cleveland appears to be vastly more politically progressive than Columbus but that may be an illusion. 7. Well, it sure looks like a real downtown anyways. 8. West Side Market is a real market. The North Market, while containing many delicious things, is more like a gourmet food court. West Side market has a train stop. North Market has pay parking. Just a few random items from the top of my head there. I still don't know a whole lot about the kinds of issues that seem to be critical to Cleveland's future but am trying to do research when I have the time. I'm just trying to get a sense of if Cleveland is improving or declining in meaningful ways. Most of what I am reading right now seems to relay that although there are many areas of the city that are being revitalized the tax base continues to shrink w/ no apparent relief in sight. A good deal of the data I see relies heavily on last census so I'm curious to know specifically how the last 5 years have been for Cleveland.

Yes, in general I mean Arts-and-Crafts style but to be a bit more specific I'm leaning toward more of the bungalow style...1 or 1 1/2 story structures. Basically I'm trying to eliminate the whole Foursquare design from the search as there is certainly no shortage of Foursquare houses anywhere in Ohio it seems. http://www.ambungalow.com/AmBungalow/whatStyle.htm

What greater Cleveland neighborhoods have the greatest concentrations of relatively unmolested craftsman style houses/bungalows?