MostlyThere14

Yup, definitely a feature and not a bug in the minds of HSG. This development is such a negative for the region. It's clearly designed to keep out the poors, it will poach from existing shopping/lifestyle centers, it will steal events from downtown, and vacates a giant stadium on the lakefront that will likely sit vacant for years. There really should be no negotiating whatsoever.

It would have to be from someone in the Haslam Sports Group. I've heard they're spectacular though and that the stadium is unrecognizable.

Definitely starting to feel like they're either staying downtown or moving out of town. Not sure where Jimmy would get what he wants since a lot of other municipalities feel similarly about publicly funding stadiums. It also probably works in Cleveland's favor that the organization is a laughing stock and I could see other cities saying we're not paying $2B for the lowly Browns.

Except Haslam isn't making a $2.5B investment.

Bibb just went nuclear on Haslam. Obviously, we're only getting the city's side of this but it doesn't come as surprise that Haslam misled, lied, and wasted time...

Yup, announcement coming shortly. Freaking Haslam...

Totally agree. Relocation is probably on the table if they don't. Haslam stinks.

Are there not a few vacant retail locations at Church & State, Quarter Phase II and along 25th within a couple hundred feet of this project? Pretty sure all of the commercial space at the Dexter is still available. I don't view the absence of commercial space as a huge miss here.

100%. Building in Brook Park to open up the lakefront is a Haslam Sports Group talking point. The lakefront master plan shows there's still an enormous amount that can be achieved on the water with the stadium there. I've yet to hear a single example of how moving the stadium to Brook Park benefits the city of Cleveland.

But that's not at all what the BP plan is. It's a stadium surrounded by parking and potentially a car focused lifestyle center at some point. It's more of a gated theme park than anything woven into BP's urban fabric (which isn't walkable as is).

But it does happen and is happening with tours taking place right now. The stadium has been intentionally designed for it to be scaled down. Whether it ends up that way remains to be seen but based on the renderings this stadium could compete with RMFH for events. I hope you're right but I bet Jimmy is looking to fill the calendar as much as he possibly can.

How do you figure? The renderings pretty clearly show scaled down seating configurations that could work as a RMFH alternative. With the amount of money being spent, Haslam will be looking to get as many uses out of the stadium as possible.

"And that does not include the approximately $1 billion privately funded phased development we are envisioning, which would also be tremendously impactful for our region." Creative language. This part ain't happening.

Odd to say that Cleveland will do better without the Browns and that Brook Park will do better with the Browns. I just don't see how this really benefits Cleveland in any significant way.

This is where I'm at too. I think Haslam is talking a big game about ancillary development, but I'm not so sure he has serious intentions about following through. If it's BP, it's a dome surrounded by parking and that it IMO.

Maybe not the most inspired design but this looks absolutely fine.

Surprised there's not a million replies to this story already. This is a dream scenario. UrbanOhio must have already gotten their weekends started!

It's wild how similar these are and yet these two can't find a compromise. Swallow your pride gentlemen. Not every engagement requires a winner and loser. The city clearly wants the Browns to remain in Cleveland and it's increasingly looking like Haslam isn't going to get his desired funds from the state. Stop wasting everyone's time and start getting to work on a compromised lakefront development.

Stadium rendering looks gorgeous. Anyone able to do a quick mock-up that removes all the surrounding development and replaces it with parking lots?

Agreed. I don't see how the Brook Park site is possible if the Browns are truly looking for a 50/50 split. And, as noted in the article, this is the price tag for the stadium alone. The infrastructure improvements needed would not be cheap.

Sounds exactly like the Meijer Fairfax Market.

In Ken's article Leonard says the the city's billboard restrictions prevented this from going up on 30 other sites, yet they approve four variances here? Really stinks to see this get no pushback from anyone.

I don't necessarily disagree with your thinking but the plans do include the stadium. I think it's reasonable for people to assume that it's important to the project. Bibb himself has always talked about the Browns remaining on the lakefront. And to be honest, a lot would need to happen for the current stadium site to become dense mixed use development. Who knows how long the stadium could sit there if the Browns move.

And not just ease of location, but proximity to areas with household incomes that are tops in the region. I just don't see what this site could offer that isn't already being served by Crocker and the other shopping/entertainment options in Avon and Strongsville. It almost has to be a purely parking revenue play.

Would love to see a dome but I think it's important to the vibrancy, and probably economic health, of downtown that the stadium is located there. Hopefully, they're considering some type of structure to help mitigate the elements.