kennynbabes

The outer ring drive does look ridiculous, but agreed that the developer was probably going for all unit lake views (at least in the winter when the trees are see through!). Of course, the current property with the church also has a drive way that wraps around to a parking lot in the rear. the could achieve the same purpose by putting the "point" of the townhomes at Lake instead of the back then feather out to the edge, put the drive up the middle.. BUT that means they have to dig up that existing driveway instead of use it... and now the internal courtyard is the driveway/parking. So more cost/ less "exclusive" means less $$. But much better for the neighbors... they get to look at the front of the place and not the driveway/garage/garbage cans. AND you could probably run 3-4-5 units across the back with a wedge of landscaping to break up the parking.

They finished the sewer work so the mud should be minimal on 65th, 67th, 69th---there is currently no Fr. Caruso so it will be tough to get from the site to anything other than 70th...and 70th has the Mt. Carmel school. I would imagine that they would minimize dump trucks on this road. I would guess they will be taking the spoil from under the bridge up 73rd since this is the road they are extending it is a straight shot, that is also where there is enough "landing area" to hold piles of dirt. That will be gawd awful once they start. The did put a permanent (ish) fence around the whole site. The main gate is at 73rd as is the construction doublewide. All of this is really going to end up as a big bag of suck for people who live on 73rd. Besides the construction 73rd will be straight shot from Detroit down into the shoreway...no stop sign, no light at detroit with a pretty significant slope. They will be living on a really long entrance ramp.

As far as I understand it. CPP. 1 of the 9 might be CEI. They each run poles down 70th on either side of the street. CPP goes over and down into the park, over into battery park (on the south side of the tracks) and parallel to the tracks (on the north) CEI ends at the industrial building at 70th and Caruso. Battery park is served by CPP on a single loop. Both us (Dergon and I live in the same complex) and BP are at the end of the CPP line/circut (we are not tapped in to the lines on the north of the track) that starts at the substaion at 65th and Franklin. Anything that happens between us and that substation takes us down. Our line at least completes a loop (down 65th then around and back up 70th) . The BP, circut is unlooped ... it is a "stub" from 70th and Fr. Caruso. So in theory they could send the current down either side for us. I know little about electricity. This is all hearsay. My neighbor says this is really bad (for BP). I appolize for the terminology and my less than expert grasp of the material.

I really wished they would have buried the utilites. At LEAST along the area they dug up to bury new fiber optic...as well as those lines that cross the tracks and then head down into the park. Never get this chance again. INSTEAD they put up higher poles on either side of the bridge. which makes sense in what universe? the train is parallel to the poles 10 feet away. the road is going under the bridge not over it. dumb. and it's not like this wasn't in the works for 15 years. There are 9 utility poles (and 1 cell tower) in that picture. ALL of them could have been removed (except the cell tower) with this project, at a very marginal cost. There are probably 20 - 30 poles that could have been removed. Some of those poles have actually been taken down...instead of burying the wires they are bringing in brand new poles. My neighbor works at CPP.. this cluster is squarely on them.

yup went to the meetings for a while. Everybody just leave everybody alone isn't a terrible motto. Those people make the angry old man yelling at kids to get off their lawn balanced.... But hey you are the guy who tried to peddle that the civil war wasn't about slavery. You will figure it out or you won't.

That is the libertarian way...stuff from you to me = freedom stuff from me to you is the government stealing from me to give to freeloaders. quite the cognitive dissonance that. Call one welfare and it is for "them" the undeserving and a couple shades darker. That is "taking" For me? that is just you letting me keep mine. It really is fascinating the mental hoops they jump through. It's like they understand checkers, so everything is 1 dimensional. The real smart ones get chess. The people pulling their strings/legs are playing go.

how about getting the Cleveland flea to operate/program the area in the spring/summer/fall? Looks like they went from Sterle's parking lot to over by Galluci's http://www.theclevelandflea.com/our-markets/ who owns the land/ROW under the bridge? the city? state? individual owners? I went to the portland saturday market once while out on the west coast. http://www.portlandsaturdaymarket.com/ something similar would be great. The area under the bridge, one of the vacant surface lots around public square, over by the WSM...but maybe sunday. when the market is closed. seems to be exactly what you guys are talking about.

There is also Cleveland Public Theater, and Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. I know the church has been heavily involved in neighborhood development, long before any of the private developers came around (that is why there are streets with names like Father Caruso and Father Frischatti). 2 pretty solid Anchors in the immediate neighborhood.

They could have called it Palette or Canvas or something else evoking art, without the negative connotations. Like I said it seems needlessly divisive. There is a certain portion of their audience who thinks of graffiti in an absolutely negative light. People who will never consider defacing public or private property as anything but vandalism. That negativity will be in their mind, consciously or subconsciously, when choosing where to spend their time/money. Seems incredibly short sighted to cast yourself in a negative light....in your vary name. To each their own, they will succeed or fail. The name will probably be ancillary to the outcome.

Probably way to late for that and I doubt they purposefully looked for the least inviting name they could come up with. Ebola...no too esoteric. Plus who am I? just 1 guy with an opinion like everybody else.

fair enough.. to me it seems needlessly divisive. I doubt anyone that lives within walking distance, who has spent time and effort removing graffiti, considers it "art". Banksy doesn't live here, and for every one of him/her there are a thousand D- students of that particular form. John Taffer would tell you that you risk alienating your target demographic.

I have a question for you (for your friends)? and probably rhetorical (I don't really expect an answer) why would they name this place like they did. The good folks in battery park spend a great deal of time and energy to remove graffiti.. It seems like a very aggressive name to give to a bar/restaurant to an area that has been and continues to be confronted by this urban quality of life issue. It strikes me as a very "stick in the eye" thing to do.

So far the only plan I have seen presented to any group I was a part of was the original. I know someone on the dsdco and have forewarned them my concerns about the way the plan is "evolving"

I think I saw on the news this morning that there is stuff going on for the RNC in 2016. the newscast showed the Q banner ad boards and the mega-tron all lit up with RNC 2016 start here, finish here. EDIT...sorry just read about the Republicans--they picked their convention date....but they are at meetings in San Diego...so it probably was not them

I agree, but reality is that it's very hard to do brown-field redevelopment in Cleveland and make any sort of profit. Rental rates don't justify new construction. And a parking structure is 10x more expensive than surface parking. But you already know all that. Mariner's watch, The Shoreway building, Temple Bradley, whatever they are calling what they are putting in where the old bath house is. All brown field Development, and that is just rental, all within 2 miles of this development. New townhome developments Battery park, Tillman, Herman, Father Caruso, 67th 69th. They are doing Brown field and infill development in this neighborhood at a record pace. It selling/renting out like nobodies business.. Everybody is salivating over the Max Hayes property. They "sold" us integrated into the neighborhood, they "sold" us that it would open up views to the lake. They "sold" us lots of things. What they are delivering is the back of a 4 story building. Instead of views of Edgewater/the Lake, there will be views of the back of a 4 story apartment building, a fence, a parking lot (or a garage) and dumpsters. Instead of opening up that 7 Block long of wall/fence they are making it higher. And removing 1 of the 3 access points. Those 300+ new people will be driving on all of the other streets in the neighborhood, while they make theirs as painful as possible for any of their neighbors to travel. I care about Cleveland, they care about $$. They won't live there. I do. I took Urban planning and regional design classes. I am familiar with Olmsted, Le Corbusier, Leavitt, Burnham, Moses, etc etc ad naseum. I have been to all the great cities in Europe...London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Olso, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Dublin etc etc ad naseum . And the US/canada..Chicago, NY, New Orleans, Montreal, Quebec, Philadelphia, Boston, San Fransisco. I wish there was an ad naseum here, but sorry Phoenix, LA and Charlotte but you just aren't "great" I actually go to the community meetings for these proposals. I love this place for it's information...but good lord the smug superiority complex that gets displayed here---I really try not to be that guy, but I am sure some take me that way.. Anybody who doesn't share the same opinion as you (the royal you) is at best uniformed or at worse stupid, is so demoralizing. We all appear to be on the same side, why are people treated so shabbily? Cleveland deserves better, the best. NOT the quickest cheapest way for Some REIT or Developer to pad their bottom line. They WANT to build here, nobody is begging them to. Lets have some standards. And no I am not using that as some cover for NIMBYism. I want more/better density, I want my neighborhood to have more people walking to more things. I actually ride the bus. I would like to see more people on it who are riding it because it is convenient and not their only possible form of transport. I would like enough density to support a Heinen's/giant Eagle in Detroit Shoreway. I actually walk the walk. I lived in Tremont long before it was Tremont. I looked for 2.5 years before I bought my current home because I was going to buy in Cleveland and I wanted to be part of the Next Tremont, to help make Cleveland better.

No it is not simply that I don't think anything other than single-family style housing is appropriate for the area. I had little bad to say about the original plan. which had 3 stories on the corners and then the sides of 2 4 story bulidings separated by the entrance across the street from the existing wall of industrial buildings south of Breakwater. The access routes bisected the parcel and connected into the surrounding street grid. I am not even opposed to a parking garage if they place it in the interior of their parcel ( parking court 2, at the southwest corner of the Westinghouse building) and not at the corner I fully expect them to--58th and Breakwater. I was at the meetings. I asked zone about retail space...because I thought having a bit would be good. dry cleaner, pizza place...something. NOW it will completely dominate and "Hulk" over the street, and then at the end instead of a nice transition to more 3 story townhomes, at best a complete drop to a fenced in surface parking lot or even worse a parking garage. I have walked that street many times. The original wasn't 1/2 bad the new is terrible. It is the "easiest best" way for the developer to maximize his room count. It is something that north ridgeville would rubber stamp. Cleveland deserves better.

Nobody hates Cleveland like people who live in Avon, Hudson, or Solon. Not even close. And boy do THEY talk the city down to everybody they meet/on message boards. I was on a trip with a colleague of mine. In Jackson Mississippi. I live in Detroit shoreway. He lives in Avon. The folks down there asked how we like cleveland. He says it is boring. I say You don't even live in the same county that the city of Cleveland is. You live cornfield adjacent. Cleveland isn't boring. 20 miles outside of Cleveland in cornfield adjacent Avon is boring. Mind you that was the NICEST thing I have heard as an answer to the question. From NEO natives. Fairview or Fairlawn are great...Cleveland SUXORS. And most of them think "travelling" is cedar point. It is depressing.

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,653.msg712175.html#msg712175 that takes you to the "original" plan. right below that is the "current" plan (without the garage) Now instead of a entrance/driveway off of breakwater 1/2 way down. there is a wall of buildings. old plan from 65th to 58th 3 story townhomes space 3 story townhomes space side of 4 story apartment building. driveway/road side/front of 4 story apartment builidng new 3 story townhomes space 3 story townhomes space back of 4 story apartment building. parking lot And it becomes much worse if they turn that parking lot into the garage they are asking for. it will be a "wall" along breakwater...exactly what is there now.

I don't completely oppose a garage. but the whole way this is changing is not great in my opinion. if you look at the original plan. The developtment interacted with breakwater. the new plan is a wall along the whole stretch...except where there is a surface parking lot at the corner of 58th that will be fenced off. So you can see it, you just cant use it. NOW if the put a parking garage where parking court 2 is---interior to the development where it meets the southwest corner of the westinghouse builidng I can be happy with that. If they put all their living space on the inside, and these blank walls/parking garage on the outside I want nothing to do with it. It looks to me like they are trying to "gate" off their area...they get the lake/city view..the rest of the neighborhood gets to look at their parking garage and trash bins.

Not real happy with a parking garage. can you tell where on the property they want to put it? I cant tell

The are doing extensive work to the upper pavilion.. It will be expanded to include facilities that allow for catered events.

the "bridge" is for ADA compliance. cheaper than an elevator. and why build swithchback ramps when you already have one. The 76th st path slopes down. The "bridge" will connect into at the height of the second story of the building to allow access.

W. 85st at madison/franklin seems like the best spot to me....but I would wait a bit. A bit of a run down mixed use area...some old industrial, retail on Madison not too far from Detroit and Lorain...On franklin... on the edge of Detroit shoreway and down from OC.... Franklin is a decent bikeway towards downtown. that puts the stations 1/2 a mile apart...65th, 85th, w blvd. there is an old drugstore at the corner of 85th and Madison that would be a good site for TOD...ground floor retail, underground or lvl 2 parking 4-6 floors of apartments condos. There are already some new townhomes on Franklin and an industrial building converted to lofts. The near west side is so close to being "together" only have to get to 117th. We are pretty much to 76th north of Detroit 44th north of lorain. Lorain is starting to push down.

Great idea! Find the political leader who will find the money. you misunderstand. I am suggesting that you include in your pictures/diagrams/massings/plans the fact that there is a fully functional airport in walking distance of this intermodal center you envision. It is capable of handling most if not all of the aircraft types that flow through hopkins. Even without any additional money or political buy in...it is 1 more chance for an aha moment when you are making your points. I am not going to find anything for anybody...but the people who see it might SEE IT if it is there. From the terminal building to the existing amtrack station is .593 miles using Google pedometer maps it is closer in most of the plans I have seen . The airport is just off the page/frame/map of almost every image I have ever seen regarding this NC Harbor IM center proposal. Bring the airport into the picture. I had a second idea/suggestion/question as to why none of the commercial airlines use Burke currently.

I would suggest that you include Burke. Having a general aviation airport terminal a couple hundred yards away?? I am sure somebody could give me a good reason, but why couldn't one of the LC carriers, Southwest, jetblue run a flight(s) out of burke? or one of the legacies load up and connect to their hubs?