Vulpster03

I wonder if there is any evidence of nonsmokers from Kentucky going up to Cincinnati to smoke free bars. Anyone have any insight or experiences?

I think it has been discussed that the Flats East Bank project is practically adjacent to the existing Flats East Bank station. But you might also be thinking of when Wolstein mentioned Shaker Square as the type of neighborhood he'd like to create there - but I don't think he said he'd like to reroute the waterfront line. It would be an unnecessary expense.

hahaha. I guess the assumption is that Jehovah’s Witness' don't use public transit?

I wouldn't consider OC the wrong side of the river; its just different than downtown. And there are plenty of nice/newer bars and restaurants going in there. Its very similar to Tremont. In addition there's a lot of expensive for-sale units being built and bought up - more so than Tremont probably. Don't get me wrong I like Tremont a lot - I'm just saying that I don't understand how you could eliminate the OC and narrow it down to downtown, Tremont, and Lakewood. In my opinion OC is more gentrified, more to do, more of a "growth" area, and a little more convenient than Tremont.

If I was in charge of redesigning the CVB's website - I'd have an interactive map on the homepage that shows Downtown, University Circle, West Side neighborhoods (rollover drop down and link to Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit-Shoreway, Kamm's Corners), Midtown (rollover drop down and link to Midtown, St. Clair-Superior, Slavic Village), East Side neighborhoods (rollver drop down and link to Coventry, Cedar-Fairmount, Cedar Lee, and Shaker Square). In addition the map would show major interstates, Rapid transit lines, the Airport, Amtrak station, Metroparks, Edgewater Park, Cuyahoga Valley National Park, and the Lake. I'd also show links and create pages to profile the West Side Suburbs, East Side Suburbs, South Side Suburbs, and beyond Cleveland. I'd also include in the directories what neighborhood each restaurant, hotel, attraction, etc. is located.

Its still not enough. The neighborhoods like edgewater, collinwood, AsiaTown/Far East, that need the a larger presence are not represented. However, I was happy to see the LGBT information. Way to go MayDay! :wave: I think the CVB was trying to distinguish between the obviously visitor-friendly neighborhoods from the "Emerging Neighborhoods". But I totally I agree with you. Cedar Lee, Cedar Fairmount, Detroit-Shoreway, St.Clair-Superior, and Slavic Village should be on the list too - plus they all have pretty nice websites that should be linked. I wish Cuddel Edgewater would put together a nice website to showcase the Clifton Blvd. Strip and the Detroit/W.117th neighborhood.

Just discovered that the CVB launched a completely new website apparently in relation to Cleveland+. Its a huge improvement from the last one. Much cleaner and more professional. LGBT tourism info has strong presence on redesigned site, and neighborhoods given more emphasis. www.travelcleveland.com

I still think that the principles behind mixed-use developments in theory are valid, but rarely executed appropriately. You probably need a much larger residential base than developers currently include in the mixed-use equation, you also need more places of employment included or nearby, some kind of tourist or visitor component (hotel, destination retail, museum/attraction, neighborhood uniqueness/ambiance), and public transit access to offset lack of parking. I also think it may help to design it somewhat seamlessly into the existing neighborhood to create more authenticity. Build into an existing street grid, eliminate the signage after the development is completed. People want to live in mixed-use neighborhoods not a faux commercial development. It may also help to include some kind of civic component; government building, community hall, theater, public park, etc.

I think I like the design. I'm going to personally endorss it.

Cedar Point is different than this project for a couple reasons. Its a draw nationally for rollercoaster enthusiasts, but its supported by people of all income-levels in its region more than anything else (Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Chicago, Columbus, etc.). Cedar Point fits better as a summer lakefront destination in its setting with the Lake Erie Islands nearby, and summer home communities like Port Clinton, Marblehead, Cawtawba, etc. Cedar Point's success is more understandable. The quarries project had aims to attract extremely wealthy from all over the world to its South Amherst Quarries development for golfing and year-round beaches. Though the real estate investors said the landscape of the site itself was phenomenal for such a development, I think everyone in the region who actually knows the region never bought into it.

Niko's was great and I waited way to long to try it. I went less than a year ago for the first time. Its too bad that its closing. He should maybe hook up with MRN on the Arts and Retail district. I don't think the smoking ban has anything to do with Niko's on Detroit closing, but I talked to Niko last year around election time and I know he was absolutely furious about the passage of the ban fearing he would loose business. If the ban did have anything to do with the closing he would have been more than happy to share it with reporters, but it looks like that wasn't the case.

I'm not a fan of Newport on the Levee. Its just too touristy and generic. The East Bank is interesting to me, because I cant quite figure out where Wolstein is going with it other than he wants it to be a "neighborhood". For instance I think I understand what Zaremba, MRN, and Stark have in mind in terms of the type of neighborhood and market. I think creating some kind of niche or unique vision is important for succesful developments like this. I think it would be kind of cool for the Flats East Bank to capitlize on the growing "Green" culture and market. With its riverfront location and light rail access I think it could capitalize on the environmentally conscious, and people who like to enjoy the outdoors. I'd like to see a bicycle shop and rental, kayak shop, Whole Foods, Roots, health-food restaurants, etc. Maybe something like a downtown version of Coventry. The uniqueness of the neighborhood and niche is important in attracting not only people to live there but visit and support the retail as well. We're getting a number of interesting mixed-use developments in the area now, and they shouldn't all have a Cheesecake Factory.

That looks very similar, but the Ameritrust building doesn't have a colonade portico

Crocker Park is being built in phases. Whats essentially there now is the first phase which cost around 200 million. Future phases include a little more retail, a hotel and a residential townhouses which I guess might push up the projected cost to 480 million.

You don't really see a lot of Catholics well represented among creationist supporters. I doubt any of the people working on the museum or donors were Catholics. I don't mean to start a theological debate, but I was raised and educated in Catholic schools. We learned about the helio-centric model of the solar system and evolution. Catholicism can adapt better to scientific discoveries, because unlike other Christian churches it is not limited to the Bible for authority. Catholicism teaches that the use of human reason can be a way to know God - not just the Bible. Also, Catholocism recognizes that what the Bible teaches is moral or spiritual truths - not historic or scientific truths. Catholicism seems "strict", but Catholocism permits its postions to evolve according to divine revalation or human reason. It is part of the salvation history concept.

Wow! Not even to go out to eat? I don't mean to embarrass you. I just find it interesting. You might be the only person posting on this forum who will respond 'No' to these categories.

I don't know how I feel about the slogan itself, but what I really like about the marketing campaign is its aims and stategy. It is aiming to promote the region for economic development and tourism at the regional level, and its strategy is to target people outside the region AND people inside the region. The in-region targeting is smart, because alot of us feel on this forum that even though our metropolitan market can support a vibrant central city - the metropolitan market does not for some unusual reason. The in-region targeting also has a civic component to it; a way to increase pride, loyalty, and dedication to the regions future. This campaign may be an important step towards creating public support for regionalism. It seems apparent to me that this campaign isn't about perpetuating an inaccurate image of the region, so much as exposing the region for what it really is. Furthermore - how the public responds to the campaign is yet to be seen - but I believe the mere effort or collaboration on this campagin from the various contributing organizations will help refocus and strengthen leadership.

This is a really good discussion thread. I've had so many similarly frustrating experiences with people in the area who have done hardly any of these things, but complain there's nothing exciting or interesting to do. Why people don't make an effort to enjoy the region, I don't know. My guess is that their preconceived notions about the city inhibit them from exploring/enjoying; they think there's nothing of value in Cleveland so they don't bother venturing out. Its a real shame - and I've been trying to communicate this with my peers. 1) The Old Arcade - Yes 2) Westside Market - Yes 3) Cleveland Musuem of Art - Yes 4) Cleveland Musuem of Natural History - Yes 5) Botanical Gardens - Yes 6) Servance Hall for Cleveland Orchestra - Yes 7) Playhouse Square (any of the playhouses) - Yes Cool Cleveland Metroparks Zoo - Yes 9) Rock n' Roll HOF - Yes 10) Great Lakes Science Center - Yes 11) Cleveland Browns Stadium (preferbly home game) - No 12) Quicken Loans Arena (preferably home game) - Yes 13) Jacob's Field (preferably home game) - Yes 14) International Women's Air & Space Museum (Thanks 30 Rock!) - No 15) Little Italy - Yes 16) Lakeview Cemetery - Yes 17) President Garfield's Monument (best view of Cleveland IMO) - Yes 18) Slavic Village - Yes 19) Rockefeller Cultural Gardens - Yes 20) Rockefeller Greenhouse - No 21) Western Reserve Historical Society - Yes 22) E. 4th nightlife - Yes 23) W. 6th nightlife - Yes 24) Cleveland Public Library downtown - Yes 25) The Nautica Queen Cruise Ship (dinner or cruise) - Yes 26) Edgewater Park - Yes 27) Case ImPROV/play or West Bank comedy club - No 28) Great Lakes Brewery - Yes 29) Shaker Square - Yes 30) Ohio City - Yes 31) Tremont - Yes 32) Goodtime III - Yes 33) Steamship William G. Mather Museum - Yes 34) On top of Terminal Tower? (just curious wink) - Yes (observation deck) EVENTS: 1) Feast of the Assumption (Little Italy) - Yes 2) St Patty's Day Parade - Yes 3) Cleveland Air show - Yes 4) Cleveland Grand Prix - No 5) International Film Festival - No 6) Harvest Festival (Slavic Village) - No 7) Ingenuity - Yes Cool Hessler Street Fair (not this year though!) - No 9) Greek Orthodox Festival - No 10) Cleveland Marathon (Anyone run in this?) - No 11) Gravity Games - No 12) CMJ Rock Hall Music Fest - Yes

$75 million kind of blows my mind considering its just one store. Multiply the cost of that one store by two and it about equals the cost of developments like this: http://euclidtransit.org/, http://www.crockerpark.com/. http://www.theavenuedistrict.net/

I just found this thread and knew nothing about the museum. I don't know whether to be troubled, laugh, or actually visit.

Architecturally speaking L.A. reminded me of Parma

Studio Palmieri - W.6th Rockafeller Barber Shop - W.6th

I think there is a huge problem that young people here don't see other people with similar interests or lifestyles. I really believe it stems from disconnect caused by suburban sprawl. I consider myself to be very "regionally-oriented". I feel more connected with metropolitan area, because I am aware of its diversity in terms of people and things to do. I think what's happening is that most educated young people from the area are from those homogeneous suburban communities where they develop their view of "Cleveland", which is far from accurate. They go to college, expose themselves to diversity, become a little more sophisticated, and want to live in an area that can sustain their intellectual and cultural needs. With our variety of multicultural neighborhoods, amenities and quality cultural institutions, educated young people should have no trouble being satisfied in Greater Cleveland. However, these assets exist collectively on a regional level. It is this regional level of existence that is not realized or appreciated. Its sad, but if you sit down and talk to college educated people from Cleveland not returning, you will find out they don't know about all the great things to do or be a part of that would have made them stay.

^ I agree. And I guess what I'm really saying is, I don't think closure of Burke should or has to be a priority in terms of the waterfront plan. Also, I wonder if the airport did close if there has been any talk about possibly moving the Cuyahoga County Fairgrounds there. That way Burke would be used more by the public, we bring more events downtown, and save the air show and Grand Prix. It might also fit into the visitor-oriented purpose of the harborfront with hotel and mixed-use development proposed for the pier. With all the possible transportation and civic connections to the site, moving the fairgrounds there might be a pretty exciting option.

A. I know Burke doesn't need to be on the lake, but just because it doesn't need to doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a valuable purpose on the lake. Burke still allows for public access on the lake - both as an airport, and a site for the air show and grand prix. Close Burke and you loose those two major events downtown. Cleveland may not loose those events if Burke is closed, but you loose them downtown and on the lake. Who knows what the future holds in terms of events; but if we ever do have an opportunity to host a MAJOR convention downtown - Burke gives us a competitive edge due to its proximity downtown. B,C - If you accelerate the Lakefront Plan and relocate the Port, you free up valuable space downtown. You create the type of lakefront public access and development AND maintain Burke - a working airport and great site for two of Cleveland's largest events.