Vulpster03

I think a lot of Facebook use/activity is superficial, but it can be extemely helpful in finding people through various connections. It has become an important means of contacting groups linked by some interest/history.

I think creation of professional sports team in general face difficulty with nearby geographical competion of professional sports teams, and the popularity of college sports. University of Cincinnati (and pehaps Xavier) basketball seem highly popular with the residents of greater Cincinnati and contribute to the negation of the need or market for a NBA franchise team. The same goes for Columbus with NFL; OSU football is so popular, and Cleveland and Cincinnati already have football teams, do they really need a professional football team?

I've warmed up as well to putting them along the lake. Originally I didn't see the value in the statement it could create, but now I feel it would add a lot of value from a statement standpoint. (BTW I don't know if my posts tonight have made much sense, because since I've finished with exams I have been drinking pretty steadily/heavily).

Wow; what a decent Litt article. I think he is a smart guy, but most of the time I can't stand his cynism and negative bias. The one thing about the new Cuyahoga County administration headquarters that I think makes the modernist structure worth saving is the neoclassical component of the building directly on the intersection of E.9th and Euclid. I find the combination of the two stuctures really intesting and unique. The Cleveland Museum of Art's renovation has choosen to preserve their brutalist Breuer component while increasing the status of the neoclassical component. Perhaps a similar approach should be taken with the Ameritrust complex. I don't think it would be necessary or wise to demolition the Breuer tower. However some renovation is probably necessary, but most significantly is probably a facade cleaning and restoration. Once the exterior is cleaned, I think it would be a much more appealing structure.

I was at Buffalo Wild Wings in Oxford watching the game, and the bar was packed with people watching the game and rooting for the Cavs. It was an incredible game. I sure wished I was in a Cleveland bar watching the game. WE ARE ALL WITNESSES is kind of tacky slogan, but I was really happy to embrace it tonight.

I think all revenue from consumer gas taxes should be collected/maintained at a high level, and a significant amount of this reveune from the tax be funded towards alternative modes and forms of public transit. Does anyone know if this revenue is intentionally and presently directed towards public transit projects? I also consider parking rates and supply a direct correlation to the use of public transit. If the supply of parking in central business districts was decreased or the parking rates of lots increased, than ridership of public transit would also go up. In my opinion the supply of parking in downtown Cleveland is a huge impediement of successful public transit projects. Even with gas prices being high, I can find very cheap all-day parking downtown that really makes it more economical/efficient to drive downtown than to take public transit. I don't like the present situation, but that is the reality in my opinion.

I think Fox Drugs became Revco for a brief period before turning into CVS- at least my neighborhood Fox became Revco and then a CVS. Also, Stop 'n' Shop merged with a lot of Rini Rego's (which had merged with or absorbed Fazio's grocery store). A Rini or Rego's family market still exists on Lake Road in Rocky River.

Has anyone else ever heard of Big Wheel? There used to be one where I lived, and I never knew there to be another one. I used to like having my mom take me there and begged her to buy me legos.

^ Yeah, Avon Lake is kind of interesting place in that it is on the border of Lorain and Cuyahoga Counties and between Cleveland and Lorain. I've definately noticed there being an "old" Avon Lake and a "new" Avon Lake like you pointed out. My life in Avon Lake has been more a part of the "new", but at the same time I certainly remember the "old" Avon Lake when it was more rural and there were only a few residential developments; an Avon Lake without turning lanes, Kenik gas station on Lake Road, more open space and woods, no Towne Center, no Britania, the Avon Lake Movie Theater, Big Wheel, Sparkle Market, etc. I went to Erieview before any type of rennovations and that school was so well preserved it really felt like a 1950s school house, and the teachers were all spinsters that wore thick glasses and Joan Cleaver outfits. There were a lot of people who seemed to have more working class jobs, and they wanted a simple life near the lake kind of away from any kind of big city. The increasingly new Avon Lake is more developed, more upper-middle class, more travelled, more trendy. I think these people tend to come from Cuyahoga who maintain their ties with Cuyahoga, or from out-of-state and have white collar jobs in Cuyahoga.

There are a lot of turns on this us-hwy route, but Rt.27 runs through the heart of Oxford where Miami University is and its terminus is in Miami, FL.

I am not criticizing your preference to keep your lifestyle within a reasonable distance of Amherst, but I have found that throughout my life I have had to go east for everything I'd like to do. I like taking my bike to the Rocky River Metroparks; I like coffee shops in Lakewood, Rocky River, West Park; growing up when I was a kid we always shopped at Westgate in Fairview and hardly ever at Midway in Elyria (Avon Lakers believe there is a lot of gang activity at Midway); I went to high school in Lakewood; I go to the West Side Market in Ohio City a lot; I like the 24hr restaurants on W.117th; the Cleveland and Cuyahoga public libraries are much better than the ones in Lorain County; the better restaurants are in Westlake, Rocky River, Lakewood, Cleveland; and the best nightlife and entertainment is all downtown Cleveland. And I don't like sitting around the house, so I find that in Avon Lake I am always driving in this eastern direction. A lot of other Avon Lakers do the same too. We rarely find ourselves driving west. The first and only time I went downtown Elyria was to take my drivers exam. So the perpetual driving eastward really bugs me. Once you explore Cleveland and the Inner-ring suburbs in Cuyahoga, you will understand and won't be tempted to live in Lorain County.

I've noticed this too. People from Cleveland who have no problem using rapid transit in other cities, but never use it back home. I offer a few reasons: 1. As a tourist in a city you don't know the roads, parking situation, will be more apt to getting lost, and you often don't even have a car. Public transit is viewed as more practical by tourists for this reason, even if they don't necessarily like it. 2. In cities like Cleveland that doesn't have much tourism or transit-oriented developments, there is little incentive to see the transit lifestyle. So a stigma persists that in places like Cleveland that its rapid transit is for poor people who cannot afford to commute and get around by car. People then think public transit might be dangerous to ride, because of the passengers. 3. You have to admit that the roadway system in Cleveland are better planned than other cities, and parking lots are much more abundant and cheap. Road congestion and high parking costs are not a factor that would persuade people to use rapid transit. Cleveland needs more tourists using the rapid, transit-oriented developments, and it needs to rid itself of the stigma and cheap parking lots. I think only then will you see people using rapid transit to its fullest and choosing not to use a car to get around.

I completely agree. I have an elderly great aunt and uncle from Beachwood (who now live in Pepper Pike), but they always used to take the Shaker Rapid downtown to shop at department stores like Higbees, May, and Halle. Even as they got older they would continue using the rapid to go to Tower City when it was first installed and was an extremely attractive shopping center. In addition they have always preferred to travel by train and dislike air travel, so the rapid was important for them to make connections to quality intercity rail service from downtown Cleveland (which has also declined over the years). I'm sure a lot of people from the East Side used the Shaker Rapid to do this, especially the older generation used to streetcars and trains. I think my great aunt and uncle represent a generation who understood and appreciated rapid/rail transit for its convenience and safety. However, as the depression-era generation phases out and the baby boomer generation came to power low gas prices swayed them away from public transit, and they became overly concerned with large houses and things available in the suburbs that significantly decreased public transit ridership and the vibrancy of downtowns. Tower City became a struggle to draw people there, and the waterfront line was and continues to be used as a novelty, but people have very little interest of actually "using" it. Intercity rail also demised (for a number of reasons), but the baby boomer generation definately prefers air travel over rail. The ability for the population to appreciate the charms of transit lifestyle that are critical for good transit service as KJP suggests. It is my opinion that the Baby Boomer generation does not appreciate transit lifestyle and are responsible for its decline. It is also the Baby Boomer generation that holds present civic leadership that often fails to understand this as well.

Frankfort > Rockwell Ontario > Broadway Prospect > W.6th Huron > W.9th W. Shoreway > Clifton Blvd. > Lake Rd. (Possibly) Lorain > Carnegie > Cedar Bunts > W.140th Wagar > W.210 Basset > Crocker > (soon to be) Sterns Lear > Nagle > Cook

Well that's not my understanding at all, and I don't agree with you. If you are talking about Lorain County around Strongsville, then I can see what you are saying- at least I think I can see what you are saying, because the only time I usually drive south of Lorain Avenue is to go to the airport or to drive down to school. Consider the eastern edge of Lorain County along I-90 and you see how the cities that are the next stop off I-90 from Cuyahoga has encouraged a lot of growth. Lorain County development is directly related to Greater Cleveland sprawl. I'm from Avon Lake, which is in Lorain County and borders Bay Village in Cuyahoga. After Bay Village became built-out Avon Lake began to see its rise. Avon Lake has seen tremendous residential growth and has become increasingly upscale. I think in 85 when my parents moved to Avon Lake from Chicago the population was around 11,000 or maybe less. Now the population is 19,000. There are lots of homes in the 400k to million dollar range now. In addition it is increasingly built out - no rural land available and a lot of the hillbillies have been priced out. I remember when there were cornfields, but absolutely none exist now. The only real farmland left in Avon Lake is few grape vines left from a vineyard they keep around for decoration where they started building a golf course and and $700k homes in a development to be Avon Lake's largest single residential development called "Legacy Pointe". I've also noticed that we have a lot of people who seem to have grown up in Westpark, Fairview Park and Lakewood, but choose Avon Lake to build a home a raise a family. Avon just south of Avon Lake has been seeing a lot of growth as well. Its entire Eastern border is with Westlake in Cuyahoga. As Westlake becomes built out, so now Avon looks attractive for new development. There are lots of upscale residential developments south of Detroit Rd. being built like Red Tail, huge retail development like Avon Commons and a host of strip malls along Detroit Rd., and a ton of job creation in corporate office parks and light industry north of I-90 and south of the Avon Lake border. Avon Lake and Avon are less than 20 miles from 'Cleveland', and many people live in Avon Lake and Avon, and commute to jobs in Cuyahoga County. Is all this development nice for Lorain County? Yeah, but it is obviously terrible for Cuyahoga County. Greater Cleveland's wealth and development is spreading farther from the center into places like Lorain County, and as a result is concentrating poverty and blight in Cuyahoga County's inner-core. But, even though we have different persepectives on Lorain County, I do also hate Lorain County. I hate it for the fact that from Avon Lake I have to drive practically 30 minutes in an eastern direction into Cuyahoga for practically everything I need to have or want to do.

PA is as close to Cedar Point as Indiana? Well I don't know... that's kind of stretch now. lol.

Thanks mrnyc. I believe New York is a great city, and a truly unique city based on the sheer scale and some of the historical-economic-cultural aspects of it of course. However after several visits to NYC, and especially the last one, I couldn't help but feel it is so overrated. The cost of things there are just ridiculous. I don't believe that the inflated incomes necessarily makes up for the inflated costs there. The big draw is status and quality of urban life. Well status is illusory- as KJP pointed out earlier - and the quality of urban life can be attained to a competitive degree in other more reasonably priced cities. Frankly I went to no restaurant or bar that I wouldn't be able to find in Cleveland. Of course there is more retail and entertainment, but what retail and entertainment exists in New York that you can't find in other places in the world, you probably can't afford anyway. New York has fabulous urban districts with blocks and blocks of like stores/shops/residences, but in Cleveland (like many other cities) you have comparable urban 'strips'. I'll take the smaller scale if it means half the price. I'll continue visiting NYC and enjoy my visits, but I will always be very critical of someone (especially from Ohio) believing New York is the only place to be. I believe the Plaza Hotel was originally built for Clevelanders; not New Yorkers. And how dare they claim the Rockefellers, Gunds, Steinbrenners, Ratners, Lewis and other Clevelanders who own their city as true New Yorkers?

Good. I like the new name of this thread. Now I have a place I can really rant about something: Avon Lake.

Lakewood (west) vs. Cleveland Heights (east) -I admire Lakewood's lakefront aspect and accessibilty/convenience -I admire Cleveland Height's architecture and commercial districts Westlake vs. Eastlake -Never been to Eastlake Rocky River vs. Shaker Heights -Shaker Heights is more impressive to drive through -Rocky River is more liveable in my opinion (safer, better schools, lower taxes, more recreation, perhaps more walkable/dense/mixed-use oriented) West Boulevard vs. East Boulevard (both historic districts now) -Don't really have an opinion Crocker Park (west) vs. Legacy Village (east) -Crocker Park, because even though it is faux it isn't as Disney and actually includes residences and parking garages. It is a better neighborhood fit for Westlake than Legacy is for Lyndhurst. Lake Avenue (Gold Coast) vs. Lakeshore Avenue (both lined with highrise apartments) -Lake Avenue, because of Edgewater State Park nearby. West bank of the flats vs. East bank of the flats -West Bank, because there is more happening there with entertainment and housing. Pluse the skyline views are incredible. Ohio City + Tremont vs. University Circle + Little Italy -I wouldn't quite phrase the comparison this way. -I would prefer a Downtown + Ohio City-Tremont vs. University Circle + Little Italy -in which case I would prefer Downtown + Ohio City-Tremont Lorain Avenue vs. Mayfield Road (as main shopping corridors) -Lorain Avenue Southpark Mall vs. Beachwood Place (upscale malls) -Beachwood (unfair comparison). Southpark isn't really that upscale Lorain County vs. Lake County -Lorain County Kamms Corners vs. Shaker Square -Shaker Square I-71 vs. I-271 -Neither, I-90 west of Cleveland is the only way to travel via interstate Bay Village's "Huntington Beach" Vs. Mentor-On-The-Lake's "Mentor Headlands Beach" -Huntington has the skyline views and nicer neighborhood -Mentor has the better beach Gordon Square vs. Cedar-Lee -Cedar-Lee, but that will change in the next decade Detroit Avenue (in Lakewood) Vs. Coventry -Madison Avenue in Lakewood is a better comparison, but still prefer Coventry The mansions on Lake Avenue vs. The mansions in Bratenahl -Been through Bratenahl, but not very much.

Those do look like really nice lofts. I the St. Clair-Superior neighborhood really sounds like its on its way to becoming the next Ohio City or Tremont.

Every now and then I try to create an avatar. I'm having a heck of time with it. I try to make the pictures smaller, but they never seem to be able to get attached to my profile. Are there tricks to creating one? Please help. thanks.

The depot is currently being used as a commercial space that has several mom and pop tenants. Some kind of art gallery, a restaurant, and a little sporting goods shop. It isn't really a very impressive structure, but next week when I home I will take pictures of it. The building is located on the north side of the tracks and has a small covered platform adjacent to the tracks. Rt.83 crosses the tracks right up against the depot, so the logistics or cost of creating a bridge or tunnel might also complicate it returning to a rail station.

I guess I am warming up to the idea of a Cleveland-Lorain commuter rail line. This commuter rail line as well as others like this would probably be especially necessary to complement and ensure the feasiblity the Ohio Hub intercity rail plan which I am strongly in favor of. Where exactly is Ford Yard in Avon along Norfolk Southern. Why wasn't the existing platform and depot at Rt.83 considered? is it because of the proximity of the intersection of rt. 83 or heavy automobile traffic along rt. 83?

I know the Michigan border is closer, but Indiana is nearby too. People always forget about Indiana. Thats good to hear. I personally think admission prices aren't that bad for the value(especially compared to other amusement parks). Cutting food prices is probably a good idea. I've often thought I would like to grab a soft pretzel or beverage or something, but I often hesitate because of the price and I'm sure other people feel the same way. Because you are stuck in the park you are likely to buy something during the day in terms of food and beverages, but you definately hold back from buying as much as you'd like to based on the prices. I really hope their price cutting included beer.

Interesting thread. I have also seen housing in New York first hand, and I was appalled at the cost of living there too. It was last year I went to NYC with several of my friends. We stayed with one of my friend's sister and her boyfriend in Hoboken. Both of the living spaces were so tiny and had no upgrades. I'm not sure what those living spaces cost, but probably way overpriced- and thats just Jersey. Both of them were from the midwest and talked about how wonderful life was in NYC and how they wouldn't think of moving back to Ohio. My friends also agreed and oooo and aww'd over all of these overpriced living spaces, neighborhoods, and overpriced restaurants that frankly exist in Cleveland (albeit on a smaller scale, but just as good quality as NYC and half the cost). We went to a party at an apartment in a building at the intersection of Walstreet and Broadway. It was a tiny four bedroom apartment with absolutely no upgrades, and the living space consisted of a tiny kitchen area and a tiny space for a sofa and television. The rent was $4,500 a month, and my friends told me this was an unbelievable deal in NYC. Here is what For Sale housing at $1 million gets you in downtown Cleveland: Plus, their tax-abated for the first 15 years of occupancy. Anyway, thats not even showing the entire space, and the Pinnacle Building includes a swimming pool, fitness ceter, concierege, and parking. It is around the corner from Constantino's and many fine restaurants. It is within walking distance to offices, sports venues, etc. I have another interesting experience worth sharing on this thread. I am aquainted with a New Yorker who recently choose to retire in Cleveland. The only connection he had with Cleveland was through business trips when he was working. I believe he was attracted to Cleveland because of the cost of living, the orchestra, the museums, and the Cleveland Clinic. He bought a beautiful condo with lakefront views in Bratenahl and belongs to the Shoreby Club. When his New York friends come and visit him in beautiful Bratenahl they think his condo must have cost millions, and they are shocked and thoroughly impressed when he tells them it only cost $400,000. At least some New Yorkers are getting the message what a wonderful place Cleveland is.