Vulpster03

I've been in a couple Bloomingdale's stores. There is probably no reason why Cincinnati couldn't support one, because the merchandise isn't so expensive (or at least more reasonable than Saks), but I'm not so knowledgable about the Cincinnati market. I would compare it to Nordtroms, which Cleveland and Columbus both have. So I think Bloomingdale's would probably work in Cincinnati. What attracted to me to post on this topic, were the claims about the Cleveland market. I don't think creating a debate about the issue is a good idea, but Greater Cleveland is the largest metropolitan area in the state, and has a disproportionate economic output (which is overwhelmingly the largest in the state). There was a list mentioned of fifteen communities in Cincinnati with high median home values. A similar and perhaps larger list exists for Greater Cleveland communities. Cuyahoga County has over 55 municipalities and the entire county is 98% built out. The majority of these municipalities are affluent. The problem with Cleveland is that the central city is so small in terms of land, that whenever you read or hear things about "Cleveland" it is mistaken for what I would call "Greater Cleveland". Most high-end or more exclusive distribution retailers seem to enter the Cleveland market first, or Columbus (probably based on the fact it is between Cincinnati and Cleveland). Not to mention, Cleveland has a large amount of boutique stores that carry high end merchandise you would find at high-end department stores.

I'm not sure I quite agree with this statement. I think I know what you mean, but there are still hardly any chains in either districts. To me a disney/tourist area would have a flagship McDonalds, Friday's, Planet Hollywood, or a Cheescake Factory. I guess the HOB is a little touristy and the lights on E.4th St. are a little disney, but considering the neighborhood has plenty of unique establishments Pickwick's, Flannery's, Lola's, Vivo's, View, and Corner Alley and Fantasy on the way in historic buildings... I wouldn't quite phrase the neighborhood that way. I think both Gateway and WHD are "destination" districts that are drawing people from all over the region, and perhaps the WHD even a little more so. A lot more people know about W.6th than E.4th. I think the Warehouse District capitalizes on the 20-30 age group, wheras Gateway offers a lot for a wide range of demographics.

A developing website is available too. It includes some renderings. I have to say, the exterior judging by the rendering looks fantastic. I don't think we have seen this effect on any downtown entertainment venues before. http://www.fantasy-one.com/index.html After this summer with all the new opennings on E.4th and Prospect I wonder what will happen to the Warehouse District.

This was a little feature on WCPN about people moving downtown from the suburbs. It interviews a guy who just moved into the Pinnacle, and they talk about the particular demographic of empty nesters and the market for downtown living. Interestingly it talks about Park Center (what is now Reserve Square) in the 1960s and Paul Volpe was interviewed a bit. It sounds like they might be trying to redesign Reserve Square, and possibly make significant exterior changes to it. http://www.wcpn.org/mc/vault/radio_features/0413tradingDowntown.html There is another feature touching on issues with Thomas Bier who explains why schools don't matter for downtown, and the demographic attracted to downtown. He projects downtown is 25% on the way to being fully vibrant. http://www.wcpn.org/mc/vault/audio/0412bier.mp3

I like nice things I guess, but I'm not a huge fan of shopping as a passtime. I'd rather spend time and money on drinking downtown, but I do believe retail is a critical element missing from downtown when it shouldn't be. A successful retail mix can only mean more vibrancy throughout the day and evening. I also see street level shops as important infill and encouraging pedestrian traffic between all these emerging hotspot districts.

Well like I said, because Saks and other boutique stores that sell the same merchandise are on the outer east side, Neiman Marcus has the opportunity to capitalize on a more central location. I think there is a myth that the entire upper consumer-market is concentrated so heavily in and around Beachwood.

I work for Miami University's phoneathon fundraising efforts. It is really interesting to see exactly where exactly our alumni are living. The thing that always amazes me, is how many people have a "Cincinnati" or "Columbus" address. Very rarely do I see a "Cleveland" address, and when I do, about 70% of the time it is people who actually live in Lakewood, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, and University Heights, and just use "Cleveland" because apparently the mail still gets to them if "Cleveland" is put down as the city. The overwhelming majority of our Cleveland area alumni actually live in Bay Village, Westlake, Rocky River, Beachwood, Chagrin Falls, Hudson, Pepper Pike, and Solon. Most of these suburbs, though on the outskirts of Cuyahoga are still within a reasonable distance from Public Square (something only like 20 miles away really). These suburbs collectively represent a large population of the metro area, and are significantly affluent and college educated. The Cleveland metro area has to have the largest college educated population, but the problem really is that Cleveland really spreads out way beyond its city limits, which are quite small. Greater Cleveland is the largest metropolitan area in the state and has the largest economic output (twice as large as Columbus). A lot of times their employers are also listed on their profile. A lot of the Cleveland area alumni work for employers with a Public Square, E.9th, Superior, or Euclid address. Now measuring how many college educated work in Cleveland would be a much more revealing fact. Something like 180,000 work downtown and 40,000 work in University Circle. I would bet that an overwhelming percentage are college educated, but not actually living in "Cleveland".

I think there is a huge flaw in retailers openning up exclusive metro-area stores in the suburbs. Yes, while the market they are targetting is right next door, there are a number of upscale suburbs on all sides of town. While the consumer market is tipped toward the east side, it has been increasingly balanced with the west side suburban and downtown consumer market for the past ten years. I think the consumer market is projected to become increasingly balanced in the Cleveland metro area in the next ten years too. University Circle, Downtown, Tremont, Ohio City, Westlake, Avon, Medina, and North Royalton are all becoming increasingly upscale and high growth residential areas, and none of them are on the outer east side. It makes sense for stores in the Cleveland area to locate downtown with all that is going on there, and the fact it is simply the most central and reasonable location for maximum fair access. Not to mention that there are a considerable amount of high-income tourists and business people staying in hotels downtown and might want to shop if they had the opportunity. Tourism downtown is on the rise I believe. The east side is perhaps glutted with retail now. New retailers considering locating on the east side are going to have to bank on the fact that they will draw people from all over, so why not just open a downtown store now? Neiman-Marcus would just be competing with Saks and Nordstroms, when they could have a monopoly on downtown, west side, and south side if it located downtown, while at the same time drawing some east siders downtown. We also have to consider that people are probably more willing to shop downtown than they ever were before in the past thirty years. Gateway, Warehouse District, and E.4th are all drawing people downtown for the best dining, nightlife, and entertainment in the region. All of these developments in these places are less than ten years old, but doing very well and expanding. Where is the retail downtown now? I think retailers are disuaded at the lack of success in Tower City since it openned, but when Tower City openned there wasn't near as much else to do in the neighborhood (and it faced competition from Galleria), and I believe people are more willing to go downtown now. The Higbee Building, May Co. building, or perhaps the proposed Stark Development would be an awesome opportunity for a new upscale department store. I wasn't thinking an upscale department store would be considering Cleveland for quite sometime, but if you have this contact Mov2Ohio then I would recommend discussing these things when you get a chance.

The thing about the Avenue District is that it isn't even really that large or super upscale enough to merrit upscale retail brands to locate exclusively in that neighborhood. Yes, the Avenue District is upscale, but so are many of the apartments and for-sale units in the Warehouse District (i.e. Pinnacle Building). So considering that you have upscale housing downtown on the eastern edge and western edge, I'd like to see more upscale retailers locate closer to a central location near Public Square which is a central downtown location for all higher-income downtown residents (present and future), highly trafficed by the suburban-like visitors who come downtown for entertainment in Gateway, W.6th, E.4th, and close to the city's most upscale hotels (Ritz, Renaissance, Marriot, Hyatt) for the higher-income visitor. For the Avenue district and Galleria I see the appropriateness of art galleries, cafes, and maybe a niche in housewares and decor. All of which could be somewhat upscale, but I like the sophisticated artistic culture that Zaremba and other developers in St.Clair-Superior are trying to create. For the Warhouse District I see the most potential in more youthful stores. Retailers like Armani Exchange or Club Monaco would be good here, because these retailers isn't so upscale that the Cleveland market couldn't support it, and it would draw on the already established "young" professional and trendy culture of the Warehouse District. I think we should also be looking for more retailers not in the Cleveland Market, but could do suceed if they were all located downtown. A Zara, Kenneth Cole, United Colors of Benetton, and a small Bareny's could probably do well in the proposed Stark Development. For the Stretch of Euclid I think destinational discount retailers would be appropriate to draw on the fact that there is potential in available large-volume space, and the Euclid corridor will probably help draw on a college student population. So maybe retailers like Filene's Basement, Loehman's, or things like that. H&M would have been really nice for Euclid, because it has a reputation for offering cheap clothing that will draw people from considerable distances, but unfortunetly one openned in Crocker Park and one will soon open at Beachwood, so it makes little sense to believe it will draw people from throughout the region to shop downtown. If Cleveland could eventually support super luxury brands, then I think the Arcade would be a great venue. It is absolutely beautiful, perfect size, great location.

I like seedy dive type places sometimes, but if a place is involved in crime affecting the neighborhood then it should be removed.

I was joking

This Jay Hotel sounded like it was a place full of interesting characters, I would have liked to check out the scene myself. Too bad it is gone from the neighborhood.

I think the renderings look pretty good. Does this mean the project is certain or still pending?

Interesting, I don't recall ever seeing this building on Jay Avenue or hearing about this project. Just want to clarify one thing, is this a historic hotel being turned into housing, or is it being turned into a hotel?

What do you think about the Arcade?

Well, I'm thinking I might make the forum meet, so here are a few pictures: in Prague: at a Luxembourg bar: at a Miami Beach restaurant:

^The residential boom downtown is wonderful. I can imgaine a sucessful retail mix coming really soon. With all the new residents, all the nice new restaurants, and new entertainment venues it seems like downtown is only missing more quality retail shops that are currently in the suburbs. Downtown in general is looking very nice. I can't imagine people aren't willing to come downtown to shop. My preference for new retail though would be still be Tower City, and shops on Euclid and in the Warehouse District over the Galleria and shops on E.12th.

It is nice that Miami has been on this building boom, but it is a little unfortunate about the lack of priority on the shriver center. I'd personally like them to gut Ogden and put the new student union there. It already has bell tower in the lower levels, and is easily accessible for students during the day. It would would probably be more of considered as a place to go on the weekends if it was High Street as well. With the business school moving, they could also make Laws Hall the conference and catering facility with a movie theater in 100 Laws, a visitor desk, the 1809 room, and things of that nature. I think it would be very appropriate to have the multipurpose rooms, student union, and administration buildings essentially on one quad on a prime location on High Street.

I think Zaremba is looking for more local shop, gallery, and cafe owners (hence why they are posting information online for samll business owners to get in touch with them). I think they want street life, but they said before that they want it to be "quiet" and different than the warehouse district. They also want to build on the artists live-work developments just east of their development. I think the Avenue District will be more like a downtown version of Cleveland's Little Italy, but that's just my impression. I think downtown needs more retail too, but preferably near higher traffic areas near Public Square on Euclid Avenue, the Warehouse District, and Tower City. I wouldn't be suprised if those retailers you mentioned are what Stark has in mind for his "billion dollar" development in the works for the huge parking lot on W.6th.

Could this project after installation create any hindrence to extending the waterfront and bringing it south to create a downtown light rail loop? I really wish there would be more developers calling for this plan and working around a transit proposal when planning their developments on the east part of downtown.

CRAIN'S CLEVELAND, April 10 Euclid Ave. housing in works Plan would transform stretch into $32M, 160-unit complex By JAY MILLER A nearly barren stretch of low-rise office buildings on Euclid Avenue between East Ninth Street and Playhouse Square would go residential under plans being hatched by a local investor and his partners.

I'm a little disappointed Stark dropped out. While his two major projects; Eton Collection and Crocker Park are a little disappointing, Stark does seems to show a gradual and increasing toward new urbanism whereas many developers are not. For example any other developer would have taken that land in Westlake and maybe tried to build a sprawling complex of surface parking lots, a traditional shopping mall, isolated apartment buildings, wouldn't have incorporated public transit, and not promoted incorporation of the Promenade retail plaza (for example something resembling the North Olmsted Great Northern region). Instead Stark opted for a much denser and mixed-use development that promotes pedestrian traffic. He exhibits progress, whereas developers like First Interstate are putting the likes of Steelyard Commons, Rysar is building a big box shopping plaza on W. 117th, and Jacobs is building a big-box suburban shopping plaza on the former site of Westgate mall that includes no residential or office component which Fairview Park desperately needs to become more sustainable and stable to remain competitive with further suburban sprawl. Of course I would say that Stark's embrace of new urbanism would be in vain if he didn' show interest in the central city, but we also know that he has shown huge interest and dedication to downtown Cleveland in the past year. He wants maximum pedestrian traffic and thousands of new people to live and work downtown. Though the architectural quality of the firm Stark uses is less than stellar, more people should accept the fact that in order to build something on the site of a former parking lot or suburban-style shopping center (Triangle) it must imply that it will be new and functional.

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. Everything downtown is relatively compact and within walking distance. The frequency is great though when you think about it. If it was any longer than ten minutes it wouldn't be worth it at all. It will also maybe nice in colder weather. But yeah, for a lot of people intimidated about walking around or simply unaware where all these things are located, hopefully they will be encouraged to explore downtown. We can be skeptic of these bus trolleys for our own purposes, but I think it will be a nice way to expose more people to downtown and through whatever marketing they do with this, and make it a factor in coming downtown at all. I'm not aware of too many other cities that offer such a service (even if it is for all practical purposes superfluous). Any positive visitor-geared publicity for downtown Cleveland and using public transit is a good thing in my book. It might be a nice experiment of improved visitor-friendly transit or preview of what the Euclid Corridor transportation project will yield in terms of pedestrian traffic and private development.

Don't know if this old news or not, but the trolley bus routes made their printable brochures available on the RTA website. Check it out! http://www.gcrta.org/pdf/ELine.pdf

^Well Cleveland does have at least one upscale neighborhood, and that is Edgewater. Have you ever driven down Edgewater, Cliff, or Harborview Drives? It is home to upper-middle class families and property values are pretty high. But I do believe that while it is sensitive to displace a lot of people and price long-time residents out of their neighborhoods, it isn't like there aren't plenty of affordable places to live in Cleveland. I have heard that while some people are concerned about the gentrification of Ohio City and soaring property values, some of the long-time residents have sold their homes at prices they never dreamed of and this has helped secure their retirement funds. So I would think that a lot of people in the University Circle neighborhood, if they are poor, should welcome new upscale housing and feel very proud. It means they are living in a very desirable place, and their investment in their home is secure.