Oxford19

Oh, that's right the conspiracy theories in the politics forum yet the posts still remain...hmm. Anyway, the merger involving CTS, RTA, and others may indeed been extensively discussed yet I was asking which pre-RTA merger communities' tax bases collapsed as you stated. That's all yet you're avoiding the question though... Post-merger RTA tanked, now in its 5th decade of free fall, so the fact that someone says it's the worst thing to happen to CLE transit isn't exactly misplaced despite the fact that pre-merger indy transit communities' tax base did not collapse.

I did answer in food faith then you respond with the above and avoid my other response? Conspiracy theory here is that the communities' transit that merged with RTA had its tax base collapse. Please name them.

Didn't say RTA is funded by Cleveland alone...and who mentioned returning bus lines to Garfield Heights? Huh? RTA recovery Step 1: fire India Birdsong

My reply was a bit facetious, but now that you mentioned it, what communities that ran independent transit systems collapsed? Brecksville and North Olmsted's tax base collapsed? Garfield Hts, Maple Hts, and Euclid took tax base hits, but collapsed? Cleveland was in free fall population collapse prior to CTS becoming RTA and has yet to bottom out from its now 7 full decades of, and at least the midpoint 2020s, of population loss. If any of the cities involved with the RTA merger had its tax base collapse, it's Cleveland. Although CLE has recovered some its tax base, it's not because of, or even a partly due to, its transit system. I've heard points made that had Cleveland built its 1950s subway, its decline may not have been as steep. Instead we got the cheap and easy Red Line (with 1 downtown hub station buried under TC which has now come back to haunt Cleveland), followed by the failed Water Front Line extension, and the promising, yet disappointing BRT/HealthLine (after waiting 25 years for an innovative transit line for the Dual Hubs of Downtown-University Circle. Hell, the WFL can't even be depended on during its limited runs for 8+ Browns home games. Then again, RTA is not dependable. Btw, I just noticed there's a ''No Politics'' below my screen name as I am ''banned'' from current events for some reason...lol..yet a discussion of CLE RTA is rife with political issues lol

Same as independent transit systems in Cuyahoga County did pre-unified system, just like the CTA...those were the days of great transit in Cleveland. Current GM is out of her league.

Those were the days of great transit in Cleveland.

Cleveland's BRT/HealthLine...from Silver rated to Bronze rated. Decades waiting for an updated system to serve Euclid Avenue, from a subway to light-rail to a lackluster BRT line that was dropped to Bronze level by an incompetent Cleveland Municipal Judge. No way would RTA challenge her inept and illogic ruling. What's up with no signal priority on Euclid Avenue; not that it really matters now given the downgraded service thanks to said judge. RTA will go from swirling to down the drain unless Cleveland gets a competent GM and stops with the "personal box checking'' being qualifications.

Yes, way better than RTA's 1970s color scheme. The MTA signs etc look great.

Soon any rail will be ''special occasion'' service. Send that RTA GM back to Nashville; oh wait, she got run out of that no transit city and was brought to Cleveland to turn things around based on her ''experience''. Experience at what? Promoting a transit initiative in Nashville to create a real transit that failed and RTA picked her up for some reason to turn around a large transit system. Something is wrong here...but no one cares and will not take the risk of criticizing India Birdsong. I knew she was bad news when she pulled that early maternity leave that forced RTA to amend its contract. Birdsong now makes $335,000. CLE needs, among many things, a competent transit leader.

Talk about in-fill. Next-up: SE corner W 9/St Clair; I believe this parking crater 2nd last standing building was where Maxwell's until the ''fire'' took it out. Really opened that parking crater.

If a west side extension out Detroit Avenue is included...they will come. West-to-Downtown Loop-East to Shaker Square/Van Aken. Under the Superior Avenue Bridge out Detroit Avenue at least to W 98th Station.

That's not the mayor of Chicago but, regardless, simultaneously hilarious and cringe. An opening prayer from a $9.95 Reverand for a press conference...lol

And folks still promote late night WFL service...lol

At a minimum, there needs to be a loop into downtown without that there's no ''or'' to Euclid, for some reason this extension idea is mentioned. If there's downtown loop, any extension should be west out Detroit Avenue. Regardless, extensions east or west aren't happening; maybe a loop through downtown could happen.

Then the City of Cleveland has to make a lakefront dome stadium work for the owners and squeeze the best deal out it for the city.

There's no ridership for a normal schedule. The whole WFL is re-opening story last year was limited to Browns games; now we see that the WFL looks to be a ''special occasion'' line. The late night train may have worked somewhat in the late '90s+, but the new Flats is more upscale and competes with, among other things, uber/lyft etc. Can't think of many folks today leaving the Flats at 1:30am to Tower City for a transfer (east or west) on the Red Line. Maybe summer weekend hours (a.m.-early p.m) but downtown Cleveland is so walkable and with a potential land bridge/ped bridge to the lakefront, the WFL appeal will be even more limited to lakefront special events for people coming into downtown for the day.

Is the WFL running just for this busy few days in CLE? Update: just read the above post, only for big long weekend WFL is running...for 8 hour days...lol. Hope they have competent drivers given its the busiest weekend of the year and ''trained'' drivers won't work weekends, especially a busy one...too much work.

Good point and look at the fire sale of 200 Public Square: $54 million, not including the parking garage which separately sold in February for $31.25 million. This prominent and huge office tower sold for only $23 million more than its parking garage?

Indy pulled off a Super Bowl...

Not sure why Progressive Field location to a PO site dome stadium, which is outside of and isolated from the downtown core, is important. Progressive Field is on the southern edge of the core and the Browns Stadium on the northern edge of it, and, with a land bridge or pedestrian bridge from Mall C, it's a seamless walk. Ideally, one could walk from Progressive Field up E 4th through The Arcade, across Superior, through the Eastman Gardens/E 6th/E 3rd. across The Mall, over to the Stadium/Lakefront; or PF--The Euclid Arcade--E 6th-over to The Mall--to the Lakefront; of course this assumes there's the land bridge/ped bridge in place. The issue today is that everyone pretty much has to walk down Interstate E 9th Street from Lakeside to the Rock Hall and keep a sharp eye out for criss-cross traffic, left turn lanes, egress/ingress from parking garages and lots, and deal with parking and cars on the pier itself. It's bad. Try walking from, say, the new Fidelity Hotel coming in on E 6th or, for that matter, any hotel in the core...to the PO site. Not happening. Cleveland's downtown is known for being very walkable. During Guardians/Cavs overlapping with the Browns, out of towners can walk over to Rocket Mortgage Arena or PF on Saturday afternoon or evening, then walk over to the lakefront on Sunday for the Browns game. The only thing that would help with this PO site is a WFL loop; but this would have to cut through the core before heading west by CSU maybe before heading south to the current tracks but...ehh. Also, that Correctional Facility plopped on E 30th Street is a deal breaker. Walking to and from our stadiums is a key feature of downtown. That's why I stated that a new dome stadium needs to be in the core, the PO site is close-in but not in the core with no reference to its location to PF.

Cleveland needs to get a new domed stadium in its core and closer-in than the Post Office site.

Agreed, a domed stadium should be better integrated into downtown....the PO site is iffy on that but close-in, no doubt. Lakefront is the best location for downtown...just walk over to it. A high-rise hotel akin to how the Progressive HDQ was set-up with maybe a couple low to mid-rises directly on the lakefront would work. Long-term talk (of course) about a hotel between Rock Hall-Science Center, that would be one and another closer or adjacent to stadium. Toss in some more bars/restaurants along the harbor/stadium etc...good to go. A land bridge or pedestrian bridge from Mall C is a given whether or not the new stadium goes on the lakefront.

It's actually not a bad idea...lol...Cleveland will have its long-sought after (for some reason) IKEA. Additionally, although IKEA may like ''virgin land'', it definitely wants excellent highway access locations...BP again.

It may prefer viging land but does have some locations in urban city areas. Regardless, the IKEA thing was only mentioned as a type of year-round draw a BP site would need.

It's a correctional facility! lol....oh, it has to go and its relocation must be part of any deal for a domed stadium there for sure.