Oxford19

Yet, the Brook Park site would still have better expanded retail potential success than the PO site whether it has -0- or 1,000 people living on site or not. Having 1,000 people on site wouldn't attract any retail regardless let alone be the source of its survival. An IKEA could work at BP though due to its location, no on-site residents needed.

Currently not a fan of the Post Office location, which is not to say I don't want a new dome stadium in the City of Cleveland. Again, where is the residential component of any ballpark village coming from? I haven't heard or read anything about apartments etc. being in the Brook Park village. What would the PO site village consist of: a smattering of bars, maybe a couple hotels, a little retail; same as Brook Park. Further, an IKEA would potentially work better, as would an expanded retail footprint, in Brook Park, not the PO site. I'm not sure if any decent amount of retail would work at either site though. The PO would be as empty most of the time as Brook Park if retail is not the full-time anchor for either location. Both locations will be car/parking dominated regardless of Rapid Transit access and Brook Park will have the potential Amtrak Station if this 3C's train line happens. Brook Park will be adjacent to Hopkins Airport and the PO could improve Rapid Transit use if the WFL could be finally looped through downtown itself; I have my doubts though about RTA's current ''leadership''. Also, when folks use the term ''suburb'' today, one thinks of the outer suburbs, not Brook Park. The Brook Park site looks almost as industrial as the PO site. The City of Cleveland is on the north side of Brook Park Avenue so it's not like a dome there is down by Strongsville-Brunswick, set out in some remote location. The PO site isn't exactly connected to downtown.

Well, if not a land bridge, then some sort of pedestrian access bridge from Mall C to the lakefront is required. We had the 2015ish pedestrian bridge to the lakefront (where the Superman Statue was supposed to go) without a new stadium. I thought that bridge was a bit too thin but certainly could work or better yet a wider version of it would do. Currently, E 9th Street from Lakeside to the Pier area has about 13 access points for vehicles, from garages, parking lots, and Shoreway exits/entrance ramps. E 9th Street is six-lanes wide and feels like an interstate at times with visitors navigating a cross current of heavy traffic. I'm familiar with it and it can feel dangerous let alone for out of towners.

I didn't mention ''Browns stadium history/drama'' specifically but Cleveland has a decades long history of general stadium drama. There have been lots of plans over the past 50+ years for the lakefront that didn't include a new lakefront stadium for the Browns and Indians. There is definitely a history of exclusive lakefront plans. Currently not perhaps mutually exclusive but very well could be depending on, of course, what the Browns ultimately decide.

A land bridge is required regardless of whether or not there's a new stadium on the lakefront. E 9th Street from Lakeside to the Rock Hall is an embarrassment that requires an alternate main route ASAP. One thing is certain, Cleveland's history of ''lakefront plans'' by far outweigh any of its ''new stadium'' drama.

...only here on UO

Right, which is why the billionaire Haslams will be blamed. Bibb is, after all, supposed to be a ''progressive".

Right, so Bibb needs to take on the Haslams, get the dome in downtown, and eliminate any potential competition from Brook Park or anywhere else in the region. Or, Bibb can hold firm on his numbers. Of course the Browns ''should'' play in Cleveland, that's not a high bar, and we're not even getting that out of Bibb. If Brook Park will be too much competition for downtown CLE then Bibb needs to negotiate, something that's precluded when one holds firm with his numbers. Bibb the ''progressive'' v. the billionaire Haslams; the latter will be blamed if they go to Brook Park in the end. ''Leave Cleveland'' isn't quite accurate on this new stadium issue. It's not like the Browns are moving out to Richfield and the Browns fans are by far from outside Cuyahoga County. Brook Park is a smart option for the Browns, way better than Modell's 1972 Strongsville threat. Things need to get decided on this sooner than later so things can get moving for 2028.

It' Great idea. Whatever way this plays out, there's no loser here. Downtown Cleveland is way beyond having its livelihood based on 8 or 9 NFL Cut off any long-term drama ASAP yet it's always interesting when two (2) grifters go head-to-head.

Most people do not have experience in dealing with an NFL owner who wants a dome for his NFL franchise. Most people are not, however, mayors of cities with NFL franchises who sold themselves as having the skills to run a city such as Cleveland and portrayed himself as a ''progressive'' despite having a thin resume coming into City Hall. Now Bibb has to take on billionaires and strike the best deal for Cleveland...or not. Although Bibb does do an uncanny Obama impersonation, we shall see if this sways the Haslams when it comes down to the nitty-gritty a/k/a $$. Obviously, Bibb can't discuss negotiation specifics...there are any. Given the timing of this story and the State of City, maybe Bibb couldn't work it in but to not mention it all is interesting, whether good or bad. The lakefront isn't off the table so let's see where this goes. I just don't want long-term stadium drama but do want a dome whether it's on the lakefront, Brook Park, the post office, or Davenport Bluffs. At least it's not going out to Medina or some other collar county. Haslams could be doing a negotiating ploy with the Brook Park; time will tell. I agree that Brook Park could very well work out for Cleveland and, as you state, for the region. Cleveland is after all a part of a MSA, CSA, and region of close to 4.5 million people and the vast majority of Browns fans are from outside Cuyahoga County. There will be some lost business downtown but many folks could easily stay downtown as well when in town for the game. Take the Red Line to the Brook Park Dome to avoid excess parking rates; currently $5.00 RT per person and RTA should have its new trains up-n-running by then.

Or, if RTA was run with a minimum of common sense, run extra trains for games.

Bibb has no real experience so perhaps he's in over his head.

Is residential a component of this ''village''? I would think any ''village'' would consist of at least a couple of hotels, some retail, dining, bars etc. Haven't read anywhere that residential was a part of this Brook Park proposal, unless I missed it. I like this Brook Park proposal and, frankly, am over Cleveland and its stadium drama every decade or so. At least the Browns aren't relocating. The current stadium should never have been built on the lakefront but, being time pressed and sold as a centerpiece of grandiose lakefront plans, there it sits on arguably the best location in the state. Time for CLE to open up its lakefront. Hopefully Bibb, even with his thin resume, can otherwise pull off a successful ''shore to core'' plan without a stadium.

The judge's ''logic'' wasn't premised on being wasteful to have expensive officers checking fares. Ramp up the Fare Ambassadors? It's been about 6 1/2 years since this erroneous court ruling. Per Justice's article, the fare ambassadors are not the correct solution.

RTA let a Cleveland Municipal Court judge's misplaced 4th Amendment decision stand; no appeal so it has ''Ambassadors'' checking fares. Ruined the whole concept of the HealthLine and now has infected the rapid lines. The rapid is basically free provided you're not entering or exiting at Tower City and homeless are allowed on it open-ended as described in Justice's article...because RTA cops can't do fare checks? RTA could have easily challenged the erroneous Muni Court judge ruling but didn't want the racial backlash and bad PR...so now we have what we have on the diminished HealthLine and basically a free Red Line ride.

...and people wonder why Sherwin-Williams didn't include a ''public space'' in its new HQ 😄

Absolutely but the parking lots can and will, hopefully, be developed to create high rise density west of Public Square. Would be nice if the SWHQ II tower includes an add-on hotel akin to, for example, Philly's Comcast Technology Center with a 300' or so height-boost Four Seasons Hotel. SWHQ II maybe 450'-500' with an add on 250'-300' lux hotel (ie a Loews/Four Seasons).

The Public Square and The Mall gaps don't help creating density.

Actually Philly will have 3 downtown Targets, the smallest one is set to close mid-May. Not so much a density issue as the one set to close is pretty small and has, like most retailers in Philly, a huge shoplifting issue. The smallest footprint will be the Rittenhouse location in a dense area but with shoplifting issues. Lots of retailer are not fully stocked, although it seems to be getting better. Downtown CLE is still not there yet and now WFH is a factor. That said, downtown CLE will and should continue to be a desirable place to live so the breaking point is on the horizon despite current challenges. The Centennial’s residential component has been downsized but complemented with the hotel and office space features. a downtown CLE would need to be on the larger size for a Target if and when it comes in. Where in The Centennial would it go in?

Like many cities, downtown work crowds are nowhere near pre pandemic levels. Weekend evenings will be ebb and flow; some busier, some slower. I was just in Chicago last mid-week, it’s no where near its prior busyness; lots of empty storefronts, including on the Mag Mile. Busier than even last late-August when I was the only person walking in City Hall corridors. No one other than a couple workers in the 2 departments i went to for business. SW headquarters will put a lot of people on the streets around PS. FWIW, Cleveland is not alone in the empty downtown vibe.

Landmark Offices post-SW move-out will leave another 900,000sf available for residential conversion.

No you weren’t bashing Columbus, just making your informed opinion. Aer Lingus website lists 14 of its most popular U.s. origin airports; CLE is one of them while JFK/EWR are 2 of them. While Intel’s Ohio presence is growing, CLE should regardless become a feeder/connector location for Aer Lingus. I recall this story a few years back complete with a billboard near Hopkins about Aer Lingus coming into CLE…way before the Intel location in central Ohio.

At least the article distinguishes ''white'' as the Polish and Hungarian 'hoods connected to ''black'' 'hoods. People need to remember that CLE was segregated along ethnic lines as well, not just black-n-white. Long story but those that don't understand this or lived it cannot understand this dynamic. One needed to understand where one was in the city, that is if you left your own neighborhood at all.

But not everyone has the mayor of Cleveland in their family doing nothing about gun violence at the same time said mayor has grandson living with him while charged with gun violations and now great grandson shoooting at cops. Nice image Mayor Jackson. lets add to this dysfunctional image : Lance Mason

This is the grandson that lived with mayor Jackson. Now we have have the teenaged great grandson shooting at cops. Where are the parents? Not grandpops or great grandpops...where are moms and pops?