Oxford19

Wonder where the proposed Trade Center tower is on the cancelled project list? The trade center tower was supposed to go on the hippodrome lot when the parcel was cleared. Hopefully there will be development on this key parcel before the upcoming 40 year anniversary of the hippodrome’s demise.

Hmm, making downtown Cleveland a ''grocery'' destination? That's a new one...

and Heinen's downtown has been open over 4 years now...and the ''grocery'' section of the store is not profitable, though it is improving. Without even knowing this profit info, I thought a downtown City Target, especially in the Huntington Bldg, would undercut Heinen's. A City Target would derail any potential profits for Heinen's grocery section, thereby placing more pressure on its ''prepared food'' sections to subsidize the whole location. It's not a good time for a low cost grocer (Target) to open downtown at this time. Heinen's grocery sales would tank pretty much immediately.

The discussion is downtown Cleveland so the comparison to UC-Clifton area of Cincy is misplaced. Is there a Kroger and City Target in downtown Cincy? Please keep an answer to ''downtown'' Cincy and not that Greater Downtown Cincy stuff.

If only the intent of forming RTA 45 years ago came to reality...then our future plans wouldn't be past plans.

Right, cuz Heinen's took a big risk coming into downtown Cleveland and all I'm stating is that I don't know if competing with a Target is even fair to them at this point. Currently it will take a toll on Heinen's. Ideally, both would be able to survive...down the road as downtown Cleveland attracts more and more residents, visitors, and workers. A Marshall's or something similar to it would work currently, provided the market is established enough for these types of retailers. It's all coming in (hopefully) eventually though in the end.

Didn't realize Dollar Stores have low cost grocery sections. Of course some people will stay with Heinen's for meats etc but for many other items, cross the street to Target in the Huntington Bldg for pretty much anything else. So downtown Cleveland is ready to add a low cost grocery store in its core, let alone across the street from Heinen's. I'm sure Heinen's welcomes the direct competition then, since according to you, a downtown Target won't change Heinen's current competition existing in midtown, OC. The more options the better! Guess it's time to directly undercut downtown Heinen's.

A city Target, with its large low cost grocery section, in downtown CLE would take a real toll on Heinen's now. Let alone in the Huntington Bldg.

Take it easy...traffic has always increased in the Flats during rush hour generally. If it's worse, that's a good thing. Maybe don't use a pic describing how bad traffic congestion is with a passing train as cars wait for said train to pass...lots of variables in the Flats that can add to traffic back-ups...that's all.

Was this McShepard guy paid for this report? All generalizations and now, of course, the Russians are blamed for blacks not voting for Hillary...lol. You can’t make this stuff up. Oddly, no mention of black flight. with current inept black leadership like U.S. Rep Marcia Fudge, Frank Jackson, Ken Johnson, Jeff Johnson, and soon to be mayor Zach “King of the Warhouse District” Reed, it can only be blamed on the Russians I suppose. From the black optimism of the ‘70s Chocolate City Movement to friggin’ Fudge, Jackson, the Johnsons, and Reed. What a disaster. Honorable mention to Lance Mason. Let me guess, these “programs” will be sponsored by “community groups” funded by taxpayers. See also Reggie Rucker and his non-profit (except for him personally) Cleveland Peacekeepers Alliance among others. Now we have “leadership” programs.

The WFL is passing by in this pic which cars have to stop for, you can see the train to the right. This isn’t regular traffic congestion.

Only matters when, as here, CIN and COL misleading “downtown” #s were used to argue that downtown CLE is so far behind by comparison with its downtown condo market. The CIN “basin” and downtown CLE are very different, that’s why they shouldn’t be compared.

The problem, if you read the thread, is that the other Cs “downtown” figures aren’t accurate. CIN’s #s are misleading as it covers downtown, OTR, Pendleton, and Mt Adams. So a true picture of downtown CIN remains unknown but CIN claims 17,000+ downtown while the residential #s here include Greater Downtown, which in CIN includes distant Mt. Adams...lol. Looks like we need to look closely at CIN published #s going forward and call it “CIN puffery”. Looks the same for “downtown” Columbus. the Geis location is excellent and the taller the better. More floors = more $$.

A good sized City Target would certainly cover a lot of things. However, these City Targets have a decent to large grocery section; I don't think Heinen's can handle a low cost competition grocer downtown yet.

The views should get real interesting once The Lumen rises above its neighbors.

Since the Geis condo isn't a specific project yet, once announced and construction is actually underway will be the time not to discuss if Cleveland even has a downtown condo market. The rumor of a Geis condo here has been around so it's not exactly a new ''speculation'' topic. Just because the soil tests drills were there doesn't mean this is happening. I noticed soil drilling on the Weston lots months before the yet to happen mixed use project was announced. That said, Geis owns the 9 etc and this project will only enhance its value, so I am confident there will be an announcement...sooner the better. Folks were pointing out how far ahead CIN and COL are with their new construction downtown condo markets; I pointed out that it's really not the case. I'm thinking a Geis project won't have avg sales prices of $248K.

The convo is discussing the viability of downtown CLE condo market with comparisons being made to CIN and COL downtown new condo tower discussion...but, in CLE, the official announcement of a geis condo tower hasn't even occurred yet...no updates until an announcement. The discussion also points to an inevitable downtown CLE condo market given its growing popularity generally and residential population growth specifically.

Only stated what I read....what is downtown CIN, not including OTR and Pendleton? DCI State of Downtown CIN condos etc includes OTR and Pendleton and uses its population as all of 45202, including Mt Adams. TBH, doesn't sound like they're playing fair.

Right, which is why Heinen’s made the right bet getting in earlier. Downtown CLE has 17,500 population with lots and lots of new units coming on line soon and many more planned, including for sale condos. And yes heinens in the black since the get-go, no cutting hours or closed on sundays type of issues either....open until 9 pm 7 days a week says a lot about where downtown CLE is and its future...including the 1 block south Geis condos and the 100s of units across the street at 925 Euclid coming in soon. actually, in addition to geis tower and nucleus, there is talk of for sale units in 925 Euclid conversion (the massive 1.2 million sf space with the largest banking lobby in the world with the rooftop zeppelin waiting room) . All directly in CLE’s densifying core.

CIN counts zip code 45202 as its downtown population of 17,400...look at that zip code area configuration-boundaries, meaning it also includes mt Adams...so all these figures about CIN are not reliable and I suspect COL numbers aren’t as rosy as stated for its downtown new construction condo market. CLE: 17,500 COL: 9,000 CIN: ? Given CLE Downtown core growth, its condo market is bound to increase.

Not according to the report you referenced for CIN. What then does Greater Downtown CIN refer to? its odd that the rental millennial tower can’t get moving while the condo market is so high in COL. I was reading about the need for a grocery store in downtown COL. A bit surprised about that being an issue with such a robust condo market.

For starters, the actual differences aren’t huge between these OH cities, pricing difference between Cleveland and Cincinnati includes CIN neighborhoods of ORT and Pendleton, part of Greater Downtown CIN.

With CIN though it includes what is called “Greater Downtown”, taking in ORT and Pendleton., so those numbers for whatever is actually “downtown” CIN are skewed. As for Columbus, it’s odd then that its “downtown” is still pining for a grocery store. With CLE nucleus project coming on board hopefully and now a potential Geis condo tower on e 9th CLE should be getting on par with its peer OH cities at least. For that matter, what is the rental tower in CIN and COL actual core? Are there Beacon or Lumen type buildings going up? according to the CLE report, avg downtown sales price was $248,000 and CLE downtown population is 17,500, not including, obviously the large housing projects cureently under construction or planned. i did ask though about the new condo tower market claimed to be in existence in these cities.

Well, The Avenue issue is old now, that's pre-crash and pretty much all new condo construction was on-hold for a while everywhere. What is ''non-warrantable units'' about? Also, downtown CLE is growing in its workforce and residential population #s. So even if CLE were losing downtown employment #s, the residential boom offsets it. However, as stated, CLE is seeing both employment and residential population increases. Downtown CLE has 105,000 workers and combined with the increasing connectivity to its east, University Circle, you have an employment base of about 175,000. Which CLE peer cities are seeing booming downtown new construction condos?

What is the downtown condo tower market like in CIN and COL? What is the count in both downtowns? Which CLE peer cities are seeing a market for new construction downtown towers?