neony

This should be a part of a proposal to: a) Extend E 18th St to the Shoreway as a STREET and not a freeway ramp. KJP, it looks like your diagram has it passing over the Shoreway and that drivers would have to go to the two new intersections to get on it. Would that be acceptable? b) Preserve the E 26th St yard as a place to layover trains. Development of the yard into a new layover facility should be considered a part of the intermodal hub project. You can't do one without the other, really. c) Extend the RTA Waterfront line over the tracks in conjunction with the E 18th St ext and make it a loop around downtown. One the issues with the RTA system is that it does not serve downtown as well as it should. We've talked about a downtown loop for years. We should do more to advocate for it. If there is an opportunity for public input these and other ideas should be presented. d) Yes, I'm an Auld Faht, but I'm still kickin'.

It's the possible configuration of the E 18th St ramps which could be the problem. This diagram shows the road taking a good sized chunk out of the yard. And why is a street being designed like a freeway ramp if the Shoreway is going to become a boulevard anyway? For comparison here's an aerial shot of Brightline's maintenance facility in Orlando FL. It's about the same size as the E 26th St yard and note that it isn't just about the tracks, but that there will be all manner of outbuildings, fuel tanks, etc

I have railroad knowledge from 50 years of advocacy on this very subject. The city could buy the land from the railroad. Once a road is built on the yard it's gone forever. We need to be SURE something counterproductive isn't done by accident. This may literally be our last chance at this.

The top diagram shows how. It goes east thru the woodsy area which was a part of the yard. A bridge over the tracks probably would not be an issue as long as it allows for three or four tracks. Also, if we are going to have a bridge over the tracks, it might make sense to build the abutments to allow the RTA Waterfront Line to become a downtown loop. The design of the roadway also looks like a freeway ramp, which would seem to be counter to the idea of making Rt 2 into a boulevard. Highway engineers just can't help themselves, I suppose.

I am becoming very concerned about plans by the City of Cleveland to extend E 18th St to the Lakefront since there is a good chance that it could encroach on the E 26th St Yard, which is probably the only location to layover and service trainsets for the 3CD and Cleveland-Toledo-Detroit corridors if the current Lakefront station is to be used. The City may take a vote on this as early as Monday, the 9th of September. We only have one chance to get this right, so I urge all of you here to speak out to your elected officials as soon as possible.

Good. I've traveled I-77 and it's a congested mess in what otherwise is a beautiful area.

Agree. We won't have French ridership levels, but there will be healthy demand for service once it starts operating, PROVIDED that it is well conceived and executed. Part of that should be to tie local transit into the rail system to make it easier to get around without driving.

Here's Lucid Stew's vid:

The 1962 map does not give the viewer the full scope of what we had back then. Service was much faster and had more amenities than today. There were still several all Pullman trains and many trains featured full dining with white tablecloths, china and silverware. Today's "service" is the palest shadow of what once was. True, this was a service in decline and things would become dire by the late 1960's, but we certainly could do much better today.

The federal government can regulate the railroads, as it does thru the Surface Transportation Board, but it would fall to Congress to enact legislation to nationalize them, which is what you are essentially calling for here. Rail labor is pushing this, but it's a steep uphill climb. I do think re-regulation (at least to some extent) may be what we end up with - if Congress can act.

This happens far too frequently. I myself was on the Lake Shore Limited years ago when we hit a pickup truck and knocked it sideways. I do wonder how the driver could not see the train in front of him/her? Distracted driving? On their iPhone? I recall an incident out west some years ago, where a log truck hit the California Zephyr at 80 mph, killing several passengers and derailing the train, setting it on fire. Railroads and highways should be separated to as great a degree as possible and level crossings should be fully gated with barriers to keep intruders off the tracks when a train is coming.

Now wait a minute KJP we did get all those high speed rail studies between 1977 and 1992! It was either that or calls for (insert vaporware here) the latest unproven tech glitz that stole the spotlight. Add to that good old Ohio skepticism and apathy for good measure and it's easy to see how we got to where we are today. True, there is currently support for passenger rail which wasn't there before, but we are a long way from seeing the trains roll. And just because the Governor supports studies, that does not translate into a go-ahead yet. He will have to persuade a very iffy legislature to support a commitment to passenger rail, a very intangible idea here. I see two possible solutions other than Ohio moving to the Amen Corner. One is to work at regional, multi-state solutions, such as the Great Lakes Authority to get around states which do not play well or to somehow entice Brightline or another operator to start service here. Both are longshots and will take time. Of the two, Brightline would be the silver bullet since they would do it all, but in either case we have to work for change.

Let's hope they anticipate the level of service the two routes could have. If we assume six daily round trips per corridor, we are talking about 24 arrivals and departures in a very constricted area. It can be done, but the devil is in the details.

Yes, I recall big shots were called "The Titans" in Columbus. It was a very "Old Boy" network and the Wolfes were very conservative.

This is good to see and a far cry from the reception we rail advocates got back in the 1970's and 1980's, when we were about as welcome as flies at a picnic much of the time. Let's hope the current effort will bear fruit.

I recall that some years ago, Amtrak wanted to build a cutoff to eliminate some of the curvier sections of the Shore Line east of New Haven but NIMBY opposition killed it.

Ah, good old parochialism. Another reason why states are poorly suited to the development of interstate routes.

I think Akron and Canton would be better developed through a network of regional rail services in the NE corner pf the State. These would be funded as transit projects since most are less than 145 miles in length and could use DMU's similar to those in the Dallas TX metroplex.

Battle scars - we gottem! BTW, I also remember a friend being told that "Our thing is the 3C Corridor" when he asked about service to other parts of the state. Parochialism is the enemy of progress. Difficult to find unity in the face of these squabbles, which is one reason why I am happy to be where I am these days.

I remember that and being called an elitist for the same reasons.

I can attest to this personally. When I was looking to move here from New York last summer, I looked at about a half dozen homes and all but one had major deficiencies, whether condition or location. There was literally nothing left to look at in area where I wanted to buy, so I settled for the last home I looked at, even tho it was sorely in need of updates.

Here's Lucid Stew's idea for using the NJ Turnpike to by pass Wilmington, Philadelphia and Trenton. This segment starts at 10:51 in the vid. He estimates a 2 hour flat WAS-NYP running time, which would probably kill the air shuttles. This makes me wonder if Amtrak could raise the money privately a la Brightline.

I watched the vid he had for the NEC, where he proposed coming off the corridor and crossing the Delaware river to run express up the Jersey Turnpike. I thought that was a brilliant idea. This isn't going to work everywhere, but it's one possibility.

Well, if they can make it work, great!