neony

Just catching up with this and all I can say is that it's yet another project with a 'burb mindset conceptually. Worse yet, it will destroy one of the few places where trains can layover between runs. It's a stupid idea.

As always. Would you be so kind as to do a 4 pm equivalent? I'd like to do a cut n paste of both side by side. Thanks!

Am I reading this right? Sislak is proposing to run CVSR trains down Canal St? I can't imagine this will go anywhere, for safety reasons at least and I'm sure Bedrock won't be interested in trains running thru the middle of their venue. Also, a backup move would be a challenge and unworkable for all practical purposes. It also does nothing to get intercity passenger trains back to Tower City. In fairness to Ken S, I think he assumes Tower City is lost to this and is just thinking of trying to save CVSRR access to a point close to Tower City. I do not know whether Superliners would fit under TC. We'd have to see what diagrams might show. However, a better solution might be to convert the Capitol Limited to single level cars, which could be in the offing as Amtrak considers replacements for these cars. ADA access is an issue with Superliners.

Why this looks positively European and modern!!!

Brilliant! And who is to say CVSR couldn't run baseball or basketball specials? Or become a link to GCRTA and Amtrak? Or be extended to Canton? The possibilities are endless.

It IS a great concept and this is the time for it, before development renders the idea impossible. Bringing all the modes together in one place will be an idea the Feds would love. I'd think any applications for Tower City would be well received by them. We aim to coalesce the will to make this happen. Preliminary discussions have been positive, but there is a long way to go. Stay tuned!

Part of our research was to find out what was built originally. Here are some historical pics from Cleveland Memory's CUT collection - when CUT was being built: L to R: CUT coach yard, Huron Rd, Steam (intercity) railroad concourse in the foreground and Prospect St. Detroit-Superior bridge in background. The proposed RTA tracks would be in the excavated area next to Superior. Early plans were for the coach yard to be moved to another location as development proceeded. This never happened, obviously. Closer view with new RTA alignment highlighted. Odd that they never punched thru to the streetcar ramp to the Detroit-Superior bridge. L to R: Approach to Detroit-Superior bridge, never-used west approach (new RTA alignment) and Huron Rd overpass and steam road catenary supports Same, looking west Under Prospect, looking west with Huron Rd in the distance, showing supports and track alignments. The Frank J. Lausche state office building was built between these two streets and may present a problem, but Track 7 already passes thru here, leaving only Track 6 to be restored. Supports and roadbed for never built line to the west, now curving under Tower City. Note that to the right, the tracks would have fanned out. It's truly amazing what was planned. CUT was built with the intent of building an extension of interurban and streetcar service to the west, which did not happen until the Red Line was built. That line uses tracks to the left, however, leaving the pictured area vacant. The issue now is that a parking garage ramp and other obstacles have been built since 1929 and these will have to be addressed. Thanks to KJP for digging these up.

This idea just came into being last weekend and we have been excitedly working to flesh out the details ever since. Part of this is research into whether the supports under Tower City will allow this (looks like a yes) and what other structures have been built that might be in the way. As KJP says, a presentation has been developed and meetings are just starting to be scheduled.

KJP probably has a better idea as to costs, but I'm betting we are looking at $250 million or more. A lot this could be paid for by the feds. I did mention a possible Cleveland-Akron-Canton commuter train to Glidone and KJP. It's a natural fit. If we have a four track terminal, there should be room for these trains.

Up to this point I was sitting on the fence about the Lakefront location vs. Tower City, but this shifted my opinion decisively to the latter. It's no contest now. BTW, this is the end result of a conversation between KJP and myself, which itself was an outgrowth of a discussion between Gildone and I. I wasn't too sure about the idea of building a new station at the old CUT coach yard and suggested maybe it might be better if trains simply went back to CUT as they did in the old days. The problem with that is that the current garage would have to be removed. I asked KJP about that and he immediately suggested having intercity and CVSR trains use the current RTA station, with RTA trains being shifted to the dormant Shaker terminal. This was a masterstroke that made the whole idea a winner. Simply brilliant. If this works, the beauty of it is that it gives Bedrock a completely free hand when it comes to developing the coach yard and river front areas as there will be no rail infrastructure to deal with. It eliminates the need for that goose necked viaduct over Canal St to access the coach yard from the west as well. It also connects transportation shards and puts them all in one place in an intermodal terminal for the first time and that fact could make a compelling case to the feds for funding. It's a winner. One other thing: This is about more than simply putting a new station under Tower City. It's also about restoring the rail approaches east and west, as well as adding a layover facility somewhere. Fortunately, the old CUT right of way still exists but new tracks will have to be laid. Also, the NS yard at E 55th St might make a good layover location. It's a major project. KJP's diagrams show this. The first step will have to be an engineering study. I think I can speak for KJP, Gildone and myself when I say we are very excited about this possibility! Still, we have to temper our enthusiasm since it's still just an idea and there could be any number of issues which would cause problems. Fingers and toes are crossed!

Fingers and toes are crossed on this. It's probably the last chance to get intercity trains back in Tower City.

Another loss in the ongoing mobility crisis that has been underway since the 1950's and even before.

Nary a train on the move in Ohio at any speed. Oh I forgot. They only come out at night!

Here's why: https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/chicago-st-louis-trains-begin-110-mph-running/

No question about it. What we have now is the palest shadow of what once was. The network was fraying around the edges since the late 1950's but what really accelerated the decline was the 1967 decision by the Post Office to remove mail from the trains. After that happened, the American passenger train was in a death spiral and the coming of Amtrak was just more bloodletting. We lost 2/3 of what trains remained on May 1, 1971 and more yet in 1979 and at other times. Today, Amtrak itself is ambivalent about anything other than the Northeast Corridor and state supported services.

Senator Jon Tester Blocks Biden Board Nominees Yesterday, U.S. Senator Jon Tester (D-MT) joined several other U.S. Senators in blocking President Biden's Northeast Corridor nominees to the Amtrak Board of Directors. Specific geographic requirements are outlined in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act that the president signed in November 2021. These requirements are outlined in U.S. Code under 49 USC §24302. Board of directors. The Aurora Group News: Tester Blocks Biden's Amtrak Nominees from Northeast Corridor Fights for rural America... https://theauroragroup.org/news 49 USC §24302. Board of directors https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title49-section24302&num=0&edition=prelim This is a major development. For years many passenger rail advocates complained about Amtrak's focus on the Northeast Corridor over all else and the slate of Biden nominees would have made the bias even more pronounced. This is why Congress added language calling for geographical balance on the Amtrak board. The current list of nominees are nearly all from the NEC and represent an attempt to defy the wishes of Congress. Tester just called their bluff. This could also lead to the formation of a pro rail bloc in the Senate which will demand fair treatment for the entire country, not just the NEC.

Not unless a fortune is spent to grade separate the Cocoa-Miami portion of the line which has over a hundred highway crossings. It *may* be possible to run at over 125 mph between Cocoa and Orlando since this portion is grade separated, but I don't know if it's engineered for higher speeds. Going faster on this segment might be possible, but would only save a few minutes. Is it worth it?

Jerry Brown did run for president, but that was way back in the 1970's when he was dating Linda Ronstadt. He was calling for passenger rail even then.

It always was but it certainly is now. All east-west long distance routes originate or terminate at Chicago since 1979. In 1962 the other east-west gateway was St Louis, called the "Gateway to the West." Memphis and New Orleans were much smaller. In the old days you could ride in the comfort of a sleeping car to nearly everywhere and there were coast to coast sleepers too.

The TXHSR project also ran into problems because: a) It was a stand alone project with no other revenue - Brightline is as much a real estate venture as it is a transportation project b) High speed rail = high costs. Brightline's top speed on one segment will be 125 mph and will cost about $4 billion to build vs. TX HSR at about $30 billion for 220 mph service. c) TX HSR will not penetrate to city centers of Dallas or Houston, adding to travel time and negating high speed's advantage in overall city center to city center travel times. This will have a negative impact on ridership and revenues

Hah. Maybe a lot of us DON'T WANT to drive everywhere!!! Just sayin'

There are a couple of problems when it comes to driving from Columbus to Chicago. One is the circuitous route and the other is having to pay a small fortune to park your car if your destination is in or near downtown. As a result, I usually flew to Midway and took the Orange Line to downtown from there. This is why a direct Columbus-Chicago rail line makes so much sense. There is definitely a need for a direct connection to Chicago, the biggest rail hub in the country.

The Camp Chase line (former New York Central main to Springfield, Dayton and Cincinnati) is now a dead end branch to a grain elevator at Lily Chapel so a stop near the casino will not work. Any initial 3CD service would use the NS line past Buckeye Yard since it still exists as a thru route. Later, the Camp Chase line *could* be rebuilt to London OH as a part of dedicated passenger line, but that is a LONG way off.

Yes, this is about more than 3C+D. Please change it back.

As with many things, the devil is in the details. Cars from this order could be 5-10 years away but in the meantime, Amtrak trains are critically short of equipment, even as 170+ cars sit at Beech Grove shops. There are no apparent plans to rehab these cars mechanically and shop forces are stripping them for parts. As a result, trains are operating with abbreviated consists and are being cancelled without notice. The Capitol Limited has been running with just three cars.