neony

Ahhh...Let's go retro and have an all bar car train called The Drinker and staff it with Playboy Bunnies!

Yes. The Airo trainsets will replace all current Amfleet cars, which date back to the 1970's. These will be used on day trains. They are ordering 86 sets, with an option for 100 more. This is in addition to the cars of the same design being delivered for Midwest and California trains and will cover trains in the Northeast, New York, the Pacific Northwest and elsewhere, as noted in the vid above and Mr. NYC's comments.

What does this mean for the twin ideas of bringing passenger service back to CUT or extending the CVSRR to Tower City? From the looks of it, this would not be possible.

In the old days trains took about 12 hours to make the Cincinnati-Atlanta run. Average speed was probably less than 50 mph due to the mountainous territory the route traversed. The top train back then was the Southern Railroad's Royal Palm, a train that handled sleepers from Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo to Florida

Here's an aerial view of the Syracuse station and Park Ave overpass:

I believe these two new Albany-New York trains are being paid for with state funds. One of them fills the schedule of the annulled Adirondack, which will be reportedly be reinstated next April or thereabouts. Another tidbit is that replacement of the Park Ave overpass in Syracuse seems for be moving forward, as is the addition of a second track serving the Amtrak station there. I don't have any more details, but these are real bottlenecks, especially the overpass which restricts rail, road and ped traffic. It's woefully outdated.

This could---or will--- make Albany-Rennselaer, already the ninth busiest station in the country, a real hub, with services in every direction. It's already pretty good, but the addition of two Boston-Springfield-Albany trains (in addition to the current Lake Shore Limited) would provide a connectivity not possible now. These new trains could connect directly with Empire Corridor trains to the west. Other services may expand as well, including direct morning service to New York from Saratoga Springs, Schenectady and Albany, added Empire Corridor service and Amtrak's Connect US proposal for a New York-Albany-Buffalo-Cleveland train. None of this is guaranteed, but is very possible. This also opens the possibility of rail oriented development around the station, whose site contains a large amount of developable land and air rights. If that happens, a TIF zone should be established to create a funding stream for more improvements.

1,000 kmh vacuum train? Perhaps there is also a vacuum between some people's ears?

It's "choo-choo" not "cho-cho". The latter sounds like a dance and trains have not choo chooed since the late 1950's anyway. That aside, I'd be willing to bet that if we actually get trains running there will be connections to transit and other forms of transportation. Such was in the planning for the 3C service before it was killed by Kasich. The trains are LONG way from happening. If there are no connections at that point, that's the time raise the issue. We have to get the darn things running first.

I take issue with this comment by Matthew Ygesias: "A bit over a year ago, New York City premiered the Moynihan Train Hall at Penn Station, a very expensive train-related infrastructure project that did not increase the number of trains that can roll through Penn Station nor make the trains go faster nor increase the number of destinations the station can serve. In other words, it was a train project that had nothing to do with trains." This is sensationalistic bullsh*t. Penn Station has suffered from overcrowding for years, with throngs of passengers squeezed into a rat's maze with claustrophobic low ceilings and an unpleasant atmosphere that has existed since the original station was demolished. Moynihan Hall was sorely needed to get intercity passengers away from commuters and it has given them an airy space to wait for trains and board them. It was money well spent. I've been in both the old and new stations and the difference is like day and night. Washington DC is suffering the same overcrowding and any solution will not be cheap. I do not know the details of what is being proposed, but I can tell anyone that these problems are real and have to be addressed. The problem I DO have is: Where is a similar amount of money for the national system? That's a major issue when Amtrak has 100+ Superliners in storage and is not fixing them, even tho they have a severe shortage of equipment. Amtrak seems to have a bias that favors the NEC over the national system. THAT'S the real scandal.

The map of federally designated high speed corridors was a state driven process, which yielded the map we see here. There was no real attempt at a national network. Instead, what we see are regional (Midwest) or state corridors whose leaders were smart enough to apply. This is why we see odd gaps and omissions. Logic tells us these gaps should be closed, such as: Pittsburgh-Cleveland Buffalo-Cleveland Detroit-Toledo Indeed, Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Toledo-Detroit should be developed as a corridor itself. It would be on a par with any other major corridor in the country and it should be. And yes, others should be considered as well, such as Cincinnati-Louisville-Nashville. Amtrak's ConnectUS 2035 proposals are a big improvement, but yet there are still gaps and what they propose would all be state developed corridors only. As it is, the Amtrak map still has that crazy gap between Louisville and Nashville. Close that and it could be possible to run from Chicago all the way to Atlanta. A 2021 Railway Age article is well worth reading: https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/amtrak-2035-map-hopes-and-challenges/

The map of federally designated high speed corridors was a state driven process, which yielded the map we see here. There was no real attempt at a national network. Instead, what we see are regional (Midwest) or state corridors whose leaders were smart enough to apply. This is why we see odd gaps and omissions. Logic tells us these gaps should be closed, such as: Pittsburgh-Cleveland Buffalo-Cleveland Detroit-Toledo Indeed, Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Toledo-Detroit should be developed as a corridor itself. It would be on a par with any other major corridor in the country and it should be. And yes, others should be considered as well, such as Cincinnati-Louisville-Nashville. Amtrak's ConnectUS 2035 proposals are a big improvement, but yet there are still gaps and what they propose would all be state developed corridors only. As it is, the Amtrak map still has that crazy gap between Louisville and Nashville. Close that and it could be possible to run from Chicago all the way to Atlanta. A 2021 Railway Age article is well worth reading: https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/amtrak-2035-map-hopes-and-challenges/

If some railfans did that CSX would not have a leg to stand on. They just don't like being exposed for the liars they are.

How many agencies have refused money offered to them? I can only think of that happening twice and it was Amtrak both times. The first time was in the 1970's, just after the Arab Oil Embargo, when Congress was set to shower it with money, only to have them say it was "more then they could intelligently use." The second time was their idiot refusal to use Covid relief money to keep people working, as gildone points out.

They made the classic mistake of going the very high speed/very high cost route, without (AFAIK) a real estate development component. No doubt FTW-DAL-HOU would be a heavily used corridor but it would not pay back enough to service tens of billions in debt. I am absolutely convinced that the Brightline model is the most workable alternative for most US corridors. The greatest exception to that might be California, where the amount of traffic and the greater distance between Los Angeles and San Francisco make VHSR more viable and necessary.

Indeed!

By the way, I am absolutely certain that the high speed folks were whispering about us behind our backs too. We were really up against several forms of opposition, one being a whispering campaign by HSR proponents, opposition or lack of interest on the part of some legislators and governors and finally, good old Ohio apathy. I do remember the Speaker of the Ohio House telling me that she did not see rail as an issue worth supporting.

They may be calling the project a streetcar, but it sounds much more like light rail. Indeed, another article does call it the latter. Terms like "streetcar" get tossed around carelessly at times.

I remember that like it was yesterday. Mifsud directly threatened their jobs too. He was a puffed up bastard who deserved what he got later in life. Yes, this was one of several times that defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory. His boss, Gov. Voinovich was interested only in rail freight. I also recall that the ODOT Director of Modes, John Platt, a really good guy, was sacked. We had another meeting where Platt endorsed $65 million for the 3C Corridor and that ORDC's Bob Chizmar, a high speed rail guy, had a negative reaction. "$65 million?!?!" he snorted incredulously. Mifsud got wind of what ORDC was planning to do and I'd bet Chizmar was his source of information. We also had a run in with Chizmar after we came out against the $800 million test track before that. He called us "divisive" and sniped at us over a dinner. Yes, $800 million for a test track, but that $65 million for service we can use is such a waste <sarcasm>.

I might add there was usually money for studies to satisfy a couple of legislators, but never for a serious effort to actually do anything. Officials who got out of line by promoting real rail passenger services were sacked or threatened. I saw this myself. As for us, we were continually dismissed by the powers that be. Even consumer representation on the various commissions were filled by political hacks, while we were passed over. The only governor who supported passenger rail was Ted Strickland and even here, the state had no skin in the game. All of the money was to have come from a federal grant for $400 million, which was returned by Kasich in 2010. It's a sordid history. However, I would be remiss to leave out the parochial, fusty do-nothing attitude on the part of too many in Ohio. This is a big reason why there has been little progress.

I can echo KJP's comments. The bullet train high speed rail system came with an unpalatable high price tag and we knew it, even tho we endorsed the 1982 sales tax issue. Its colossal failure was one reason why any sort of rail passenger initiative was not going to be looked at favorably and it poisoned the well for years. Keep in mind the economic climate at that time. It wasn't good and the public was not going to support a costly abstract idea they had never experienced either. To ask the public to support an increase to the sales tax was a real stretch. Incidentally, $11 billion in 1982 dollars is worth about $33 billion today. By contrast, Brightline's Miami-Orlando line is projected to cost about $3 billion. In addition, many of those pushing HSR viewed the incremental development of conventional service as a fly at their picnic. Indeed, some did not want rail in any form, calling for maglev instead. I recall being at a meeting of the high speed rail commission when one commissioner said we should "forgo 19th century rail technology and avail ourselves of the latest technological advances". In any event, they took a dim view of anything other than true HSR. Invariably, these studies went nowhere (KJP and I still have copies) and no service was started in the meantime. Finally, things came to a head (I think it was in 1992) when an $800 million HSR test track was proposed between Columbus and Dayton, a sum which could have built the entire 3C Corridor and more at the time. This was finally too much for us. We ended up going public in opposition and that was enough to kill the idea. During the 1975-1992 period, several studies were produced, all calling for very high speed service and, again with a very high price tag. As a result, we spent years spinning our wheels and we STILL do not have real service. Some may call us "old school railfans" but history has proven us correct. We would have had service decades ago if others had listened. Those who advocated a "big bang" approach made it impossible to achieve progress. It is they who were the impediment, not us. Ohio should have service along the Brightline model: 110-125 mph, frequent and modern. Air service is mostly a non-factor in the 3C Corridor and that means the real competitor is the auto. Beat the drive time and rail service would be very competitive and affordable. I'm talking about an endpoint to endpoint running time of about three hours. Footnote: Art Wilkowski was a state Representative from Toledo, not a US Congressman.

Ahem...hee hee... Well, sometimes you just have to face reality. I was a charter member of the Ohio Association of Railroad Passengers way back in 1974 and served in various capacities until Mr. Kasich came along in 2010. At that point I made the decision to retire to Florida in late 2011 and stayed out of Ohio rail issues until the last year, when I became involved with a multistate effort that includes Ohio. Ohio is a damn frustrating place. Only the strong survive.

I think it was about this time that the Indianapolis-Chicago Hoosier State started operating as well. This was partially to ferry equipment to and from Amtrak's Beech Grove maintenance facility just outside of Indianapolis and I believe the train was 100% federally funded. The Cardinal bypassed Indy on another route at the time. In 1979 Indianapolis lost the New York-Kansas City National Limited AND the Chicago-Tampa/Miami Floridian. These two trains were really the dogs of Amtrak's long distance offerings, with poor equipment and endless problems with bad track in Indiana.

WHO is Roland Solinski??? The guy seems to have all the details!

Here's a list of trains we have lost in Ohio:: 1. National Limited - New York-Philadelphia-Pittsburgh-Columbus-Dayton-Indianapolis-St Louis-Kansas City 2. Broadway Limited - New York-Philadelphia-Pittsburgh-Canton-Lima-Ft Wayne-Chicago (later rerouted via Youngstown and Akron) 3. Shenandoah - Washington-Cumberland-Parkersburg-Athens-Chillicothe-Cincinnati 4. Mountaineer - Norfolk-Lynchburg-Catlettsburg (thru cars to Chicago handled in the Cardinal) 5. Pennsylvanian - Philadelphia-Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago 6. The Lake Cities - Toledo-Detroit connection to/from Lake Shore Limited 7. Three Rivers - Intended to replace the discontinued Broadway Limited after Amtrak realized that it needed more than just the Lake Shore to New York from Chicago, this train was mostly mail and express, with two or three coaches, a cafe-lounge and a sleeper. The train was dumped when Amtrak folded its M&E business. It's route was New York-Philadelphia-Pittsburgh-Youngstown-Akron-Chicago. Most of these trains were well patronized, except for the Shenandoah, Mountaineer and the Pennsylvanian. KJP explained why the latter train did poorly and I can add that Amtrak expected All Aboard Ohio to advertise it. AAO did not have the resources for that. It was about this time that some dimbulb manager at Amtrak decided to paint a sign on the roof of the Cleveland station instead of putting up a new sign along the Shoreway. His reasoning was that it would be seen by the Goodyear blimp as it hovered over Browns football games! In addition the Cardinal (New York-Washington-Charleston-Cincinnati-Chicago was temporarily discontinued, but returned as a triweekly only train. This train, along with the daily Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited operate thru Ohio at night, leaving the state with no daytime service. Amtrak also proposed to run the Skyline Connection as a part of its mail & express business along with passengers. It was even in their timetable, but it never ran. Its route would have been New York-Philadelphia-Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago and it would have served Ohio points in daylight hours. So, of 10 trains that directly served Ohio, we are now down to three and one of those only runs three days per week. All run at night. True, two of these were lightly used, but imagine what things would be like if we had the remaining eight??