TH3BUDDHA

Here's how the state hopes a new tax credit program will transform Ohio downtowns "This is something that will incentivize development in downtowns," Schuring said. "If it is a mega-project that would have a ripple effect on a large swath of area around it, it's a good thing to invest in. This is not just about one building, but transforming an entire area." ... "We think this program will really help improve downtowns all over the state," Werkman said. ... "Office buildings with a parking structure are not transformational," Werkman said. "We want to create economic improvement and economic opportunities by helping these projects come to fruition. We want to help cities make place more of a sense of place, which people are really looking for now." https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2021/09/29/transformational-tax-credit.html Attempting to build better urbanism in our cities by encouraging taller, denser mixed use projects and attempting to promote economic development seem like things you do to attract people. But, maybe I'm wrong. In your opinion, what is this bill designed to do if not to make our cities more attractive to new workers?

I think it's unfair to say this, as I literally brought up Senate Bill 39, a bill introduced by Republicans to accomplish exactly this. Just because you don't agree that it's "enough" or "will work" doesn't invalidate it as an attempt. I think we need to wait and see how it does before you can say those things, anyway. Maybe it will be quite successful. How would you know?

I really don't think we are. I think we just heavily disagree on this: I don't really think it matters in any statistically meaningful amounts, at all, and you seem to think it does. Are there anecdotes from a politically vocal minority? Absolutely. In fact we see these anecdotes from both sides. Personally, I think the data agrees with me that there isn't a really strong correlation between state level politics and which states young people migrate to, as we see both rapidly growing red states and rapidly growing blue states. You seem to disagree with this. But, I personally don't feel you have made a compelling argument for how you KNOW that state GOP politics are definitely playing a role in preventing people from coming here in relevant numbers. Sure, you may FEEL they do, but that doesn't hold up. I DEFINITELY don't believe that there is a "ploy" to actively prevent young people from moving here as you originally commented.

I don't disagree with that. Migration data suggests that they are willing to overlook that, however, for things like a good job and better weather/nature. Otherwise, many states that are growing wouldn't be growing.

Well, Pugu, which is who I was originally replying to with the definition, was directly doing that. But: But, if you aren't suggesting that state level GOP politics affects interstate migration, then we have nothing else to discuss because we aren't really disagreeing on anything. I'm certainly not making the argument that people seek out conservative politics. I think the migration data suggests that there isn't really much of a correlation at all, which is why I don't think it's really a valid argument. People move for jobs, nature, and weather, which you agreed with with your comment on the weather in Texas and Florida. However, I don't really think the weather argument holds up as well in states like Tennessee and Georgia.

Appeal to intuition is a logical fallacy and is a different thing from anecdotes. Anecdotes are personal experiences. Appeal to intuition is using your "gut feeling" about a topic as fact, which is exactly what you guys do when saying that GOP politics are the cause of Ohio's population woes. Show me the data or quit using it as an argument.

An "appeal to intuition" is using your "gut feeling" that something is true as a valid fact in an argument. Unless you can prove this gut feeling and we can both accept it as a definite truth, it's invalid as an argument.

Yes, because I never brought that argument up at first. You did. I simply replied and pointed out that, unless we can definitively quantify the fact that GOP politics prevents people from migrating to states, it's nothing more than an appeal to intuition and isn't really valid, even though you guys keep using it as absolute fact.

I was simply pointing out that the idea that there is a "Republican ploy" to keep young people and immigrants out of Ohio is a bit ridiculous. Nothing more.

Sure, but personal anecdotes aren't valid counter arguments.

You understand what anecdotal means, right? Also, did you look up "appeal to intuition"? Your gut feeling that GOP politics is keeping people from coming to Ohio does not make it true. Unless we can definitely quantify what you claim, it's an invalid argument.

Yea, and one of them, predictably, is going to reply to you with, "But people move to blue areas in those states!" which is irrelevant because they're trying to make the claim that state level conservative politics prevent young people from moving anywhere within that state.

So, you admit that you can't prove this with data, but you guys keep using this in arguments as absolute fact? How does that make sense? This is an appeal to intuition fallacy.

That would suggest that differences between those two cities are to blame, rather than state politics, no?

State laws that have had no impact on young people migrating to other states in this country. How many times do we have to beat that dead horse on this site? If you can provide concrete data that there is a direct link between state level politics and interstate population migration, I'd love to look it over. Otherwise, how does this argument ever hold up? Nobody has ever been able to provide any. At the state level, we are, perhaps, "redder" than we have been at any time in recent history, and Columbus is booming with new young people. I think the idea that there is a GOP conspiracy to prevent young people coming to Ohio is a stretch, but we can agree to disagree. I also think it's tiring that LITERALLY EVERY complex aspect of human existence has to be categorized into a simplistic spectrum of "left vs right." Is it possible that, gasp, people can hold a mix of views and have some conservative viewpoints while ALSO wanting young people to come to our cities? We're also ignoring that the the birthrate has been declining for many years and that this news was always inevitable as the boomers aged. This is going to become true in many blue states, as well, as the boomer die off speeds up, considering we aren't replacing them with births anywhere in the country. Will it be due to politics in those states, as well? This also suggests that the recent unexpected population gain in Ohio was actually due MORE to net in-migration of people to our "backwards" state.

The entire point of Senate Bill 39 is to encourage transformational mixed use developments in our largest cities in an attempt to promote job and population growth. If you wanted to prevent young people from moving into our state, why would you sponsor and pass this bill? I highly doubt they expect these projects to appeal primarily to their retiree base.

If this is true, it seems their support of Senate Bill 39 would have been counter-productive to these efforts, no?

They also had the plane backwards in the first version during the press conference lol. They had to fix it.

They really need to put a mural above at least. That piece of blank wall looks absolutely horrible.

Big news! It's been sitting dead forever.

To be fair, the current Grandview Crossing development is still much better than the initial proposal. Wasn't it originally just going to be a suburban shopping strip? They can also still develop the parking lots in the future.

With all of this movement on the Children's campus and the OSU medical center, I wonder if we will see any movement for Ohio Health on the Riverside campus soon.

Yea, in early renderings, it was originally set back with a curved section in the front that connected to the building next to it with a courtyard along Livingston. Now, that curved section is on the back side.

Looks like this is about to start. Drove by tonight and noticed the parking lot is now blocked off and some equipment there.

I mean, it's a good thing to see them growing. But, doesn't this seem a bit premature? Wasn't most of their recent success driven by pandemic panic buying?