B767PILOT

Lol...Delta ain't going anywhere but ATL. That place is a cash cow

United will probably use these from their hubs to secondary cities in europe and South america - not fom secondary american cities, unless the yields were high. They may even add frequencies with these from hubs.

It was announced today that United inked a deal with Airbus for 50 A321XLR. Went on to say that they will be used from east coast hubs to europe and south america. Deliveries begin in 2024

Maybe not so much an outlier as in as much that there is probably demand on their side but its just as diffuse as it is on the side of Cleveland. Not enough demand from any one particular city but enough demand across the continent. A parallel case would be Hamburg. A large, wealthy, important city with almost no demand to the US

Yes, but they have a business climate that requires european travel - BOTH WAYS.

It could be but anything less than four and it becomes inconvenient and you defeat the purpose of a non-stop.

International flights - or any flights for that matter are a function of demand and the price willing to be paid by the consumer. Yes, the city can throw in subsidies and incentives but you cant rely upon these as they dont last forever. Cleveland has, i beleive somewhere around 250-300 people to europe daily. BUT what is the demand on the other side? How many people in europe are coming to Cleveland. The demand has to work both ways, not just from Cleveland. Also, those passengers from Cleveland are going to various destinations. There really isnt a significant amount going to any one city. I think London comes in around 60 per day. Unless they are paying premium fares, that isnt enough to make it work. So, its easier for United, American, Delta to funnell these people through a hub rather than take a plane and put it on a route that is thin at best. You need O&D on both sides of the city pair in a decent number at a decent yield to make it work. And a smaller plane like the A321XLR is fine to close the gap - but remember, unless the yield is good, the revenue doesnt cover the flight. And if you are paying a premium fare and have ylto make a connection anyway, you will probably want to connect in a city wherr you can get on a 777 or similar for a much better experience. Finally, the business community needs to step in and commit the seats and revenue to justify the flight and thats an important key. Sorry if this rambles on but im on Amtrak Acela to Boston and typing on phone

Remember: its yields, yields, yields! Austin is much smaller than Cleveland but they have a growing international service. I beleive British Airways has been using a 747 on their Austin Route. Plus they have Lufthansa, Norwegian and soon, KLM. And here's the kicker: Austin is only a 30 min. flight from the Mega-Hub that is Houston. Lufthansa flies to Houston and is also in Star Alliance which is a Houston hub thanks to United - and Lufthansa flies to both cities

It could...provided, however, that you fill it (80% load factor on average and up) and fill the premium seats consistently. Just because the aircraft is smaller doesnt mean the economics are better. And in winter, Ill bet those A321's will be stopping somewhere westbound for a drink jet fuel

You are right. A full fledged hub as of this past summer

Well, no. The city needs to plan for all contingencies. A resurgent city will drive an increase in air service. Boston isnt a hub but look at its air service. Austin, Texas same. Its not all about inventives, its about sustained committment and numbers

And 747s to florida. My father flew DC8s for UA and i remember the 747s well. But you are correct. DC10s to numerous destinations - and AA and UA had the piano bars on board

They flew 747s in the esrly 70s.

And FLL too

767 service on AA and UAL. Once upon a time B747 service to two or three destinations on UA. A310 and L-1011 on Delta and etc. And my favourite: Vickers Viscounts and Vanguards to YYZ and YUL.

Continental originally slated Cleveland Frankfurt on a DC10-30. Hub to hub. The White admin insisted on London - a One World hub. Hence the downgrade to 757.

Yes, engines and also somewhat different wings and landing gear but CLE is already equipped to handle all except the A380 and it turns out that the "Whale" wont be flying anywhere in a few years. Concourse C can handle B747 by the way. Also each model referenced above may have different engines depending on the airline and some lines may operate the same model with different engines thus having two distict subfleets of the same model

And heres hoping it interacts with its surroundings. The term "campus" conjures up visions of a walked-in, self-contained prison

But the opportunity isnt in the A321 or 737MAX really. If truly motivated, they should already be flying on a UAL 767 or Lufthansa A330 at least 4 times a week to Frankfurt or Munchen

The Weston Superblock vision and a 35 storey tower on PS would suit me fine.

Not necessarily. But you need a healthy premium heavy O&D to cover the flight. It isnt just about the number of passengers its also about where they sit and what they are willing to pay for thay seat. Long haul flying is expensive. The aircraft utilisation is low and so revenue is limited. Honestly, Cleveland needs a commitment from its business community to guaranty revenue to make this work or at least an uptick in O&D - especially in premium fares. Basic economy tickets aint gonna pay for it. Above you reference that UA is adding a third LAX flight. This isnt because theres an increase in the cheap seats its because the fron if the plane is paying for it. CLE to LAX is premuim heavy

The A321XLR is so far only being scheduled to east coast cities from europe. I dont see this aircraft being used extensively across the pond. Taking SAS for example; there is vutually no O&D to Scandinavia from CLE. It would all be connections. Also, the premium seats would have to sell well and there is no Premium Economy on those planes. If a premium flier has to connect anyway, they are going to do it in New York, Washington, Atlanta, etc and fly on a B777/A330. United's fliers did that in the hub days to London and Paris. Rather than a NS from CLE to europe, they connected elsewhere for a better experience. The A321 can work in an O&D heavy market such as Boston to London, NYC to London, etc. or hub to hub flying

Then make it 10 levels and 40-45 stories.

This, to me, is one of those public infrastructure projects that begs to be completed. A resurgent Cleveland in the next decade or so is going to need mass transport options to/from those NW lakeshore burbs and Loraine County. Even 40 years ago those benefits were pretty self evident. Those NW burbs were then and are now a rich source of ridership

Well damn...i know it costs money but.....