DTCL11

They have to rush to build it - before the commission and public realize it was a terrible thing to approve -or rush to build it to prove it won't be as bad as it seems. 😅 I really hope it turns out better than expected.

It's probably unnoticed but the existing garage is actually set up for garden terraces and a green facade. Would be nice to have these restored and maybe even have the new building continue this tie in like above. I actually don't hate the existing garage. It's one of the better garages, especially given its age. Perhaps a bit brutalist but (don't crucify me) I actually don't hate brutalism. Revamp the area under the overhang into a better plaza, especially with the loss of Dorian but otherwise, it doesn't read as boring garage other than the recessed bottom are where additional screening or art in a new plaza could address that.

When you get a chance, please please please get a photo and video of the kinetic screen on parking deck near there. Maybe 1 or 2 blocks south ? It was being installed when I was there last winter and it's how I wish they had done the convention center garage. The way it moves is so awesome.

This was my thought as well. There is something to be said for an 'iconic' Tower but i don't think I necessarily care if it's iconic in that location or not. Using the county color scheme, I would not be upset for something like this. Maybe wrap around on Mound

I don't know. It's going to be hard to beat the initial (lack of?) pace of the LC buildings downtown. The daily crew of 6 people or less for what felt like yearsssssssss.

Agreed. I don't think it will fit. Seniors at the Waterford and Miranova is part of the reason the fountains and concert stage at Milestone aren't used to their full potential. Putting senior housing there is begging them to petition council to put limits on the use and hours. And yes, by moving there you accept you are moving next to a stadium but that won't stop them from throwing fits.

There is lots and hopefully we can get some pretty cool stuff in what's left! We hear 'built out' because what Nationwide Realty controls is essentially built out. So any media around the Arena District revolves around their property assets and essentially ignored the rest. So when NRI declares it a completed vision, the media follows the narrative when as you point out, there is so much more potential to be harnessed.

You also have to convince Savko to sell the land. I'm sure there are plenty of companies that will take the chance but if Savko wants to keep a dirt lot, then a dirt lot it shall be.

FWIW the Joseph was concrete all the way up. But 225 on the Commons was half and half. Certainly not an entirely equivalent buildings but I wonder if the use can also dictate how it is constructed. Is a hotel more likely to be concrete platforms all the way up? EDIT: I will also add that the Joseph added 1 concrete floor about every 1-1.5 Weeks. So even if the Hilton goes concrete all the way up, the tower will rise relatively quickly if it keeps a similar pace based on the tower footprint not being terribly different than the Joseph.

It makes a surprising impact when driving south on Neil toward North Bank Park. I never actually though about what these and gravity 2.0 would do to the view from that area.

That was one of the best proposals we've seen in the area. The way it balanced the library was so great. Unfortunately it required demo of a great in tact building but the replacement was enough of a iconic building to better warrant it. I'd be curious to see if the makeup of the commission is the same but they refused to go to seven stories then. They demanded it be six and then it sort of disappeared. Part of me hopes they'd be ok with a 7 story hotel among all the 5 and 6 story buildings but would not be surprised if they still put up a fight. The hotel would be to the South of this new apartment building.

It wasn't colorblindness. I thought the same thing until the schematic was posted and was surprised it was 'bronze'. Just another bad element of their renderings and proposal. Those stadium apartment plans are amazing becuase they are so details. I feel like this architect is just really bad at detailed proposals and renderings.

I'm not sure that it's black or gray as the rending appears. The schematic shows a bronze and maroon theme. They alternate corrugated gloss and smooth matte panels.... The bricks aren't specified by color in it so I'm not sure. But they definitely need to show those.

A little off topic but I dont think it's not that the city doesn't care at all. I think it is very much on on radar and they are waiting to get it right. It was a top priority in 2010 but I can see why it was tabled in favor of other high profile projects. There are alot of elements in play now that weren't 10 years ago and I think leaders probably saw that. And things that they couldn't really plan or envision quite then without seeing how other things shake out. With limiting downtown ramps, actually having real discussions and funding about true BRTs etc, this is the time to re envision Broad street rather than much of the last 10 years and the city is including that in their transit Corridor studies it seems. Should we have moved forward then, we might have been stuck with a less complete street. The city might have said we JUST did it, we cant redo it again and we would have had some modest improvements perhaps like Mag Mile but not what we need. The 2010 concept didn't include bike or transit at the time. It was beautiful but perhaps not right. (See below) The city often follows developers. So while 2010, they announced big East Broad plans, developers went west and stuck to High street. So that's why we saw High Street revamped so extensively and now seeing plans for Broad. I'm not sure that the investment in East Broad would have changed that yet either with vast land available west. Another aspect is we saw the administration's change at city hall. And whether good or bad, Ginther doesn't have same focus on showstoppers like Coleman did. And whether that's good or bad is another topic for another thread but it does play a part as we've seen shifts to Hilltop and Parsons and Cleveland Ave corridors and less on East Broad for, as of now and much of the future, a primarily business Corridor. And that circles back to the city following developers. As developers increase residential interest, the city will follow behind. It's chicken and the egg. I'm pretty confident we will see the updates. And pretty soon. Now, whether I have faith in the city doing it right... thats different. I think we should look at a grander version of the health line in Cleveland as an example. The general concepts from the National Association of City Transportation Officials are my ideal. Just with much more green. But it also allows a much easier potential conversion to rail some day. I leave it there before we all get kicked to the transit forum.

🎶 The dream if the 80s is alive on Broad Street 🎵 I dont think materials selection is going to help this much. It may be a situation where overexcitement for density has allowed an architect to get away with things they probably shouldn't have. HOWEVER. If the idea is to preserve a corner of downtown for the 1980s feel.... I still think they failed at that. Meh. I would have voted to send it back. Not even to ask for the world and nitpick. Just for.... *looks around*... something else.... you get the idea. Keep the idea of windows maybe? Start there! I don't ask for architecturally different and stunning builds for general infill but this gets close to Uncommon territory for me. I guess the general mass in the middle is fine but the rest is odd. Also weird that they didn't end up keeping the corner facade when the new build essentially recreates a similar shape.

I wish they would bring part of it forward. Seems a bit disjointed to me right now. Perhaps it's just the perspective of the renderings making the original building seem longer than it actually is? Even an amenity level bump out with a patio above the former copius to give a better transition. Or bring the whole height forward with a smaller set back? Idk. Something just feels off about the proportions in the rendering. I don't recall the interior being anything special and it does look like the western bump out portion cuts a little into the existing. A good precedent for that stretch. A few tweaks to make it better.

I could not get a picture but Borror has put the former white castle/Patrick Js lot up for sale. They installed a large sign with their logo that says Land for Sale. 1.2 Acres. I'd say that the redevelopment of that site is confirmed to be dead. Another couple years of gravel lots with folks selling tie dye is to be expected. Ive said it once, I'll say it a million times, I just really need that lot and the old Acre across the street to be redeveloped into a nice gateway for Old North from Clintonville.

Wouldn't that be something if Stark lost out on NuCLEus after initially designing the bill to solely apply to his project. 😂 He is really the reason there was a push for TMUD to begin with.

Interesting they have the 'double punctuated(?)' windows like the German Village Giant Eagle proposal had at one point. Is this a new trend? It looks fine but on this one but it's not something I remember seeing and now we've seen a version of it twice recently.

TMUD applications open in June. Not really able to figure out what the time frame for review and approval is. They will be annually awarded. $80 million tax credit cap annually for urban projects (cities over 100,000 pop) $40 million tax credit cap per project. If more than the $80 million is received in applications, they will be ranked and awarded. Those that are not awarded can apply the following year. In theory, only 2 projects might get the award if they are two significant projects. I'm also not sure if the state can essentially determine a different award amount from what was applied for. Developers must provide an construction timeline and construction must start within 12 months of the award. NEOtrans reported in November that up to 30 Cleveland Area Proposals would appear to qualify. That didn't appear to include any in Akron if they have some floating out there. I'm not sure what Cincinnati, Toledo, Dayton etc have in the pipelines. https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/11/29-cleveland-area-megaprojects-that-may.html?m=1 It seems it may be pretty competitive right out the gate to Super Daddy's point. More than I actually expected tbh. My naivite thought it would be North Market MUP, NuCLEus, maybe Millennial and a couple others perhaps. While I expect that North Market Mixed Use Project (formerly North Market Tower) has a high chance of being ranked near the top and a pretty good chance of getting the credit, my curiosity will be what happens if it misses out on the 2021 credits. Is it further delayed or do they have the financing in place to move forward? Might we see the next update be that they will reapply in 2022 and break ground in 2023. I really hope the answer is groundbreaking in 2022 no matter what. I'd actually like to see that laid out by the investment group but I highly doubt they would show their hand if the project now hinges on this credit. But that is my concern. Can this project be successful without it? In theory it has all the right backers with or without the credit and maybe the credit is just icing on the cake. I believe previously they stated they pretty much had it all secured but were working out some details. This is similar to what has happened to projects like Millennial and NuCLEus in that funding is often the major factor in delay. ............................ And before I get flack for dropping 'Tower'... From Biz Journals July 2019 Now termed the "North Market Mixed-Use Project" as opposed to its earlier moniker "North Market Tower," the 28-story project cuts off about seven stories from earlier plans in favor of a 600,000-square-foot development that is wider at its base. https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2019/07/11/new-shorter-175m-north-market-tower-plan-emerges.html ........................ edit: and I'm sorry for always harping on the finances. That's just where I largely see the biggest issues for major projects if it isn't a commission issue. I promise I'm still hopeful. Just inquisitive about what is going on behind the curtain.

June 2014. One of the other things I remember from that project was talking to a gate attendant and saying they were bringing in about 400 dump truck loads a day for the infill. I think that was the most exciting project to watch from the AEP building

Yeah... lots of examples. Endless possibilities, really. Claiming it cannot be done tastefully is pretty inaccurate. Like I said, a back third could easily play off it and step back leaving modern. Char Bar is another example. A small wooden structure in a sea of modern and old significantly larger than itself but still seeming to fit in. Does it need to be like the Vancouver project? No. But also, read the entirety of the thread. I think our point was missed. I don't think jonoh81 and I are willing to die on the idea to preserve this at all cost. If I might summarize our stance it is this: - absolutely no demolition without seeing what replaces it. - think outside the box and at least play with the idea of some sort of preservation - how long before we decide that any number of buildings is too much to deal with and just tear them down for the sake of new and bigger. Let's also not put the cart in front of the horse and expect anything large or showstopper. Which speaks to the prior point. Show us. Then we can make a difference decision. If the quality of the project is along the LC buildings, I might be swayed. It's its another 250... I'd want it sent back with or without that building.

It breaks up visual monotony of blocks of retail or office fronts too. And there is so much potential for similar projects in the eastern parts of downtown and franklinton. We have alot of these stand alones that can add so much to a design for more than even preserving for the sake of preserving. And it's something very few places actually do so Columbus could be a model for that if we pushed hard enough. I fear what the stand alone mentality will do for those buildings.

And now my imagination has been triggered where it could easily be incorporated to the back 1/3 with a section that can tie visually between Main Bar and the Julian and the front 2/3rd is literally anything. And that breaks it up visually as well instead of another monolithic structure on a corner where there is 250. The Courthouse, the Parking Deck, and even to some respect the Julian and Southern. It's a sea of buildings a half to a full block long with little to break it up. At least the southern has bump outs and set backs etc. . But again, we are looking for easy. Who knows. Maybe Schiff will surprise and I'll feel less badly. But show us the plans first.