w28th

Neither really do much "master planning," this is true because they don't take on developer work, which is usually what large scale urban developments are. This is unfortunate because both have the designers (WRL more than RF in my opinion)to respond to the urban condition in a manner that would be more intriguing than the "Crocker Park in the city" vernacular that City, KA, Dorsky, etc spew out (i.e. The Avenue District). Being the architect for a developer is more often than not a dangerous and excrutiating place to be if you have a problem straying from your ideals as a designer.

True, they are only doing master planning as of right now, but if anyone has seen Volpe's proposal for Public Square a year or two ago, them working on any project in any manner is scary. Unfortunately, any firm in the city that would get a job like this (City, KA, Bialosky, Dorsky, Forum, etc) would produce pretty much the same "traditional, neo classical" solution because they are top down dictatorships that generally don't allow younger, motivated, urban minded designers to have much input. And the firms with a decent design process/portfolio [Westlake Reed Leskosky, Fleicshman (hate the bastard)] wouldn't touch a developer commission with a ten foot pole.

Great news for University Circle for sure, but I'll be damned that Paul Volpe and City Architecture are involved...

I knew someone would jump on one of the two adjectives. Either could apply at times I suppose...

Just curious, but why did you ask how they were selling if you already knew how many were sold?

^Don't speak for me, a silent mayor doesn't make me want to leave the city.

Whenever there is a problem like this, the easiest thing for the accused to do is throw out the "oh, everyone is racist, they don't like the black crowd." Well, if they're the ones shooting 5 people at 3:00am, people don't like that crowd if they're black, white, red, yellow, whatever. If race is the issue, fine, deal with it. Like it or not, a certain kind of hip-hop attracts a certain part of the black population. Thugs. There are of course deeper issues on a city-wide level to deal with this behavior, but at a place like this it's as easy as not having under-age hip-hop night in a packed downtown neighborhood.

I have been a bit cranky on these boards since friday (no need to get into why, B.T.). I'm just tired of accepting the b.s. that floats around this city from the Paul Volpes, Osborns (I honestly wasn't even aware they were architects and here they are designing transit centers and mid rise structures in the city) and all the other local architects that are afraid to propose something other than we are seeing at the Avenue District or this proposed College Town. That stuff has been done a thousand times over throughout the country and they're willing to slap another one here with no thought to what this thing is in the skyline, it's street perspective, etc. This transit center is a contextless, programatically ambiguous design that could be confused with a Four Seasons resort off of I-90 in Westlake if the YMCA building wasn't shown in the rendering. I hate to be continually negative on this forum, I really do, but I have a hard time accepting this sort of crap from these designers. Am I the only one that thinks we should have better?

It's good to get that kind of development into CSU, I just wish they explored the opportunities that exist in designing a transit center (movement, speed, density), instead of pasting facade elements onto a clumbsy agglomeration of overlapping forms and materials. And if the tower isn't built (immediately or ever), what's going to be there, an empty lot on the corner of E21st and Prospect? That certainly doesn't create the density that should be at that intersection.

Talk about a mishmash of aesthetics. The west facade is completely clad with green reflective glass. The north facade is clad in the "classic" Clinic pink granite(gag), the east facade is metal panels, and none of them wrap to the adjacent facade to connect with the other. Just awful. As a city we build and accept this crap, yet tear down buildings that are conceived as a cohesive part of the urban context. All they need to do is add the standard tree lawn to the heart center and it looks as though they'll be ready for business.

Sigh... Osborn? Aren't they an engineering firm? Whoever is selecting the archtiects for CSU should be fired.

The rotunda has been empty for 15 years as well genius. By your logic that should be torn down along with the Breuer Tower. Just because you're too stupid to recognize architectural integrity, you should at least be able to utilize a consistent argument for the whole site.

I just question what the city planning commission heard today that they didn't hear 2 weeks ago that changed their minds. You're right, the anti-demolitionists didn't organize early enough, but at the same time Hagan, and then Dimora had already shut down the thoughts of preservation for whatever whacked out logic they deemed valid. Mark my words, this will be something we will regret in the next decade or two. Oh yeah, and Frank Jackson, pissing architectural heritage away does not make people want to live in the city. Just shut your mouth and have no input on topics crucial to the city until they are already decided like you have for the last 2 years. The list of people I won't vote for in the next election is rising quickly.

Tim Hagan Jimmy Dimora Albert Porter

That's another problem, nobody even tell you what it's going to look like because they have done no work on it. Presentation to the city planning commission; they had nothing. And the rendering they haev shown so far, it looks like it was creasted by an 8 year old. Those are the people you are trusting to design a building at this prominent corner.

What's worse than tearing down your city building by building? It's been going on for 60 years and it still continues. Obviously you're part of the group that doesn't appreciate or understand the urban condition or even simple economics for that matter. Allowing politicians to mold a city is obviously a dangerous proposition.

Unf%$#ing believable! Be prepared for a piece of sh%t replacement or an empty lot all togerher. I don't even know what else to say. F%&k Hagan, Dimora, Cimperman, the gutless City Planning Commission, and all the other people who are too moronic to give a damn about the aesthetics of this once great city. Obviously we will never learn. This is the first time I've ever been embarrassed to be a Clevelander.

What's more practical, tearing down a 35 year old, 29 story architectural masterpiece of poured concrete floor by floor, spending roughly $40,000,000, to get to a blank site (there are already 100's of those in this city), wasting another roughly $100,000,000 to built a poorly designed structure by an inept architect, just to get as many chain smoking county workers onto less floors with 12'-0" ceilings instead of 10' or 11' ceilings? You're the one that living in a "SimCity" mentality to think that this structure will be torn down by the demo button and the materials will disappear into thin air. The asbestos and single pane windows are a relatively easy fix compared to building an entirely new building. And are we to assume that did they not know the floor to ceiling height before they bought the structure, and that it was an issue? Example: "Oh, I need a car to haul large objects, so I'll buy a Porsche, rip it apart while leaving the tires, and construct a Ford F150 atop them. It will cost me 40% more to do, but what the hell." That makes about as much sense.

That is one of several topics that nobody, including the commissioners, know because they did no feasibility study for the building. Robert Madison (arch of record for the project) just sits back and watches the commissions come in, does zero research and zero due diligence, just as he has done for the majority of his career.

For not being in use for 15 years, it is in remarkable shape. Visually I'd rather look at an empty Ameritrust than a filled NCB any day of the week.

Who's the jack ass that wrote this? Typical PD article, going against common sense, and with their political ties.

I just wish they didn't have to have railings around the outdoor setaing on E4th, just seems so confined and rigid. The restaurant seating in European piazzas with the seating spilling into the public space is so much more inviting.

Wonder Bar has to be close to opening up, the interior is really coming along from the looks of it.

Those parking lots at Prospect and E4th sure would look good with some 5-15 story residential and office spaces on them.

Posts are made when it is convenient for that particular forumer. Anyways, it is a numbers game because of the amount of federal funds a city gets is based on it's population, not its land area. I remember hearing something like $500,000,000 of additional funding would be available to the city if it were that size. Obviously it would take a lot to run services for a city that size, but that's a lot of money. If that is in fact true, that's something that shuold be known by these suburban mayors that are opposed to such a merger.