Jeff

More on the Arcade ebay auction....from the DDN. You Can Bid on the Arcade On Ebay DAYTON | You can find just about anything for sale on eBay, including Dayton's historic downtown Arcade. Tony Staub, president of Brownfield Charities Inc, owner of the Arcade, on Tuesday confirmed he listed the 1902-era building for sale. The asking price for the 260,000 square-foot-building with picturesque rotunda at 28 W. Third St. is $4 million. Brownfield Charities has been unsuccessful in finding a developer for the building and property taxes have mounted. Montgomery County Treasurer Hugh Quill is ready to sell to investors delinquent property tax liens on the Arcade, a move that could take the complex out of local control and clear the way for demolition.

The intention behind that line was to compete with the L&N for southern buisness, opening up southern markets for Cincinnati. There was a passenger train service down the line, too, evenutally connecting with New Orleans: "the Queen and Crescent" limited. (connecting the Queen City with the Crescent City by way of Chatanooga and Birmingham)...which ran from the 1920s into the 1930s.

The Salt Lake area used to have pretty good rail transit. The Bamberger Railroad ran between SLC and Ogden, tying togther towns along the Wasatch front. Bamberger was one of the few interurbans that lasted past WWII into the late 1940s. ..its a hoot watching these western and mountain states doing stuff with rail transit while Ohio still just has the Cleveland system And that artcile about Missouri wanting to start up train service between Springfield and St Louis. While Ohio cant even get something going between the big cities here.

^ I do, plus some other Guthrie stuff (original & covers). Also a Billy Bragg fan.

Midcentury and Ikea would probably go good together as they both are coming from a similar modernist aesthetic....Scandinavian design had a big influence on midcentury modern in the US too.

The place for an Ikea would be a site like Union Centre when it was just getting developed...flat, with tons of open space for parking, and an unobstruted view from the freeway of the big blue and yellow Ikea big box. They are looking for a very high-viz location, and somewhat of a stand-alone location. One of the things I noticed about the Chicago (Schaumberg) Ikea when i was up there was that they had archtectural speciatlies/hardware and plumbing items (doorknobs, casework, handles, hinges, bathroom & kitchenfixtures & fittings), so it wasn't just a furniture store.

Asking price $4M. Small skyscraper included The seller has a "store": Sherrys Riffraff

I like kingfish out of waters' avatar.

I think 41% is pretty good too. I always thought "alternative' meant rock, and maybe a certain polticized bohemianism, as in the German use of the word.

From the Sullivan Papers... The Dayton/Miamisburg corridor is a good place to study the evolution of commuter suburbia as ite evolved on the way to modern sprawl. This was one of seven interurban cooridors radiating from Dayton, but was the first to also see industrial suburbanization. This corridor also had, during the 1920s at least, a steam commuter run to Moraine City as well...a reverse commute for city workers to suburban industrial plants. The above map shows what where probably early stops on the line, with later stops denoted by the double circles, which correspond to this timetable. The interurban connected rural villages (Alexandersville) and pre-exisitng industrial towns (West Carrolton and Miamisburg) as well as leading to the developement of new suburban settlements: Carrmont, Berkley Heights, and Moraine City, though Moraine City was more of an industrial suburb. This was probably the kind of car used for local and rush hour service in this corridor (the line was eventually extended south to Winton Place, in Cincinnati, via Hamilton and Middletown) Though the interurban kicked off suburbia, the automobile also helped. By 1931 there where a number of plats in the area, not all associated with the interurban. This thread will look at two early interurban suburbs that are closer to Dayton, Carrmonte and Berkley Heights (better known nowadays, collectively, as Southern Hills). Lets take the interurban south to Carrmonte. Street running from the station at Third and Patterson, on Fourth and Main, southward to south of NCR, where it enters private ROW Here is a northbound train, about to leave private right-of-way at Main and Sawmill, curving around the base of the hill just below Sugar Camp. This line will climb the hill and emerge in Carrmonte on "Traction Avenue". A 1920s (on the left) and 1910s (on the right) map of the twin suburbs. Both where subdivided sometime between 1895 and 1906. An aeriel view from the 1920s or 30s (image courtesy of the WSU Archives and Special Collections Dept) ...same view, labled Note that, except for a short stretch in Carrmonte, the interurban ran on private ROW, with a branch to Southern Blvd and Oakwood parallelling Dorothy Lane. Originally single track the line was eventually double tracked to beyond Moraine, and regraded to remove the hilly sections. It paralled the Cincinatti-Dayton Pike, which eventually was renamed South Dixie Drive as it was a leg on the transcontinental Dixie Highway. Cin-Day Pike is to the left. Also note the quarrying operations and the new Kettering Blvd at the bottom of the image. An example of the double track line in Southern Hills (note the car is signed for Southern Hills, indicating this is a local run) Also note the chicken stand on Dixie Drive, to the left.."Chicken in the Ruff", illustrating that even at this early date chicken was a key component of the local economy. (image courtesy of WSU Archives and Special Collections Dept.) Lets take a close up look at Carrmonte. This was probably the earliest suburban plat on this line, and developed as sort of a generic Dayton city "neighborhood", but remote from the city. The Carr in Carrmonte was the original landowner. Note that Patterson Blvd was a late addition to this neighborhood. "Downtown Carrmonte" per a 1950 Sanborn map...the interurban came down the middle of Traction Ave (here renamed Dixie Drive).... ...which may have been rather picturesque, with what appears to be an set of rowhouses with a corner store and a turret over the corner, a restuarant (the original Neil's Heritage House) and another corner store, which is the sole survivor of this little neighborhood downtown. The expansion of Neil's and other changes have suburbanized this once traditional "buisness corner" Perhaps an interesting angle to the developement of this suburb was Calvary Cemetery, Dayton's Catholic cemetery. The interurban probably meant quite a bit of funeral traffic to this stop. Whether this line ran funeral trains like they did in Chicago is a good question. Carrmonte Lets take a tour of Carrmonte, as it is today. The Carillon Tower is the dominant presence in the neighborhood. The foreground would be a good "neotradtional" redevelopment opportunity to increase density. Local landmark Neil's Heritage House, now closed. Tired menue led to a decline, and a new chef couldn't save the place. Sort of unusual design..restaurant + offices. It was sort of the death star too, having wiped out a block of older houses, on "Hertiage Pointe Drive"...what used to be Traction Avenue. The interurban came into Carrmonte down the middle of this street, which has the oldest houses here. Traction Avenue houses Although the street ends, the railroad ROW would have continued into the wooded area, going down the hill and then on to Main Street. Side street Schantz...this is the old Cincinnati-Dayton Pike, and heads east into Oakwood, ending at Main. Two streets from old Carrmonte. Willow Grove and Avalon. Willow Grove Wrought iron and rubble stone facade. Interesting. Avalon, the Isle of the Blest. Just some nice little bungalows around here.... ...and the ubiquitous four square Commuter rail lasted here till 1941, then the former ROW was turned into another set of lanes for Dixie Drive (US 25). The intersection of Patterson, Dixie, and Schantz was pretty much redone..here we are sort of looking down the old rail ROW..south out of town... Old church, predating WWI...and neighboring houses. Rowhouses. An indication on how this suburb was sort of a recreation of a city neighborhood, using housing types found in town. Houses on Dixie Drive, and on dead-end side streets running west of Dixie, ending at Calvary Cemetery. ..and a few modern office buildings, near the entry to Calvary Cem. Sacramento Street climbing a hill, with a few California Bungalows. Along Dixie Drive And this is an instructive pix. The two outbound lanes to the left, was the original Cincinnati-Dayton Pike, and the dual-track interurban line ran in a slight cutting below. One can sort of envision what this could have been like in modern times in an alternative transit-freindly universe, with a light rail line running out to suburbia on the ROW, instead of two more lanes of traffic. More houses on Dixie And a peek down the side streets running to the east, into Hills and Dales Park. One of the very nice things about this area is its hilly, and that its surrounded on one side by a park Another view of Dixie, showing how the old interurban ROW ran at a lower level created by cutting, so as to minimze grade and permit higher speed operation. Side streets of Carrmont, south of the Dixie/Patterson/Schantz interchange ..the old school. This was built by Van Buren Township, around the same time the Belmont schools where being built. This is now a church. Apartments. The design of this one is vaguely deco/moderne. The sloped roof is a later addition. Hills and rooftops give a slightly villagesque vibe. Bungalows to die for. A bit of Pasadena in Dayton (though there already is a "Pasadena" in Kettering) ..closer to Hills and Dales the housing becomes a bit more tudor/doll house cottage. The Berkeley hills or Carmel By the Sea done up midwestern.... I love this one, the way it plays with scale (that window!) ..and the neighborhoods begin to curve, the neighborhood blending into Hills & Dales. Perhaps the hand of the Olmstead firm can be detected here a bit? Berkley Heights Berkley Heights was platted around the same time as Carrmonte, or shortly thereafter. It was definetly subdivided by 1906, with some early streets appearing on this old topo, though the neighborhood is not labled. By the 1920s and 30s the neighborhood streets have pretty much been layed out, running up to Hills & Dales. The part nearer the interurban mainline appears to have been developed earlier, and is more wooded. The parts closer to Hills and Dales was more sparsely developed and wasn't really filled in until WWII and the early postwar era. This is sort of a tranistional development, part being more the streetcar suburb, the other being an early automobile suburb. On the aeriel the interurban branch line to Southern Blvd and Oakwood can be seen (red arrows), as well as a big billboard at the intersection of Dorothy Lane and S. Dixie Drive. No buisiness district, but a little neighborhood store does survive. The older park of Berkley Heights is built up more in the bungalow style, and is an early curvy-street subdivision for Dayton... Though this looks like a traditional pedestrian-freindly neighborhood, suburban space is not far away, as S. Dixie is, here, pretty much developing as a commercial strip, with a big Wal-Mart across the street. Looking south on S. Dixie. Back into Berkley Heights, some older apartments ...and this pix tells the story of the neighborhood as one gets further from the old interurban route...a scattering of pre WWII construction mixed in with mostly postwar or wartime housing. Tiny bungalow (more what one might find in Drexel) ..and this interesting modern thing. A circular house. More Berkley Heights side street scenes Another comparison. Wartime or immediate postwar housing with a 1920s foursquare Standing in 1920s bungalowland, and looking out into the wide-open spaces of auto-sububria....(looking west toward Dorthoy Lane) Dont you just love the huge window in the dormer on this bungalow? It has to be floor-top-ceiling. Modest but nice The wood screen work on the one to the right is interesting. ...this almost looks like a Chicago-style bungalow, but not done in brick like they are in Chicago. ...Hlls and Dales park boundary WWI memorial in Hills and Dales Park. And Hills and Dales Park itself. The great amenity for this neighborhood. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Though these are, to me, fairly different communities, no one calls them "Carrmonte" or "Berkley Heights" anymore. They are all "Southern Hills" and are, believe it or not, part of Kettering. In fact, this was where Kettering was born. Dayton was doing a big annexation push in the late 1920s, annexing the suburban parts of Van Buren Township that are known today as Belmont, and trying to annex Oakwood (though the Oakwood story is a bit more nuanced ). For some reason Dayton did not try to annex Southern Hills at that time. Which was a big mistake, as when Dayton did make a move on this area after WWII, the Southern Hills community association decided to push for the incorporation...of not just Southern Hills but of all of Van Buren Township, effectively foreclosing any further annexation attempts by Dayton (and Oakwood) to the south. This new suburban entity was to be called "Kettering", after its most famous resident. This was rather controversial at the time, and led to three de-annexation attempts by various parts of Van Buren Township. Only one was sucessfull, which led to the creation of Moraine. So one can say the beginnings of postwar suburbia as something "seperate" from the city was here, as was the political beginnings of Kettering. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Next thread will continue further south on the interurban line: next stop, Moraine City.

Jimmy Scott was from Clevo? No shit!

Ohio High Speed Rail, circa 1966. This actually worked..it was a test, running between Ohio and Indiana up on the NYC Chicago-NY mainline

The Arts Building looks like a fun modern building. I always wondered what this college looked like. It was a popular destination for Chicagoland kids. But it was way out "in the boonys". Now you say DeKalb has a pop of 100,000? Wow!

Dayton and Rochester aways seem to be close to each other on these lists. ....and Huntington-Ashland metro has every city in Ohio beat. Hmmm.

"....which they do with festivals they like...." Interesting.

The Gary model might be what lead to the first attempt in Ohio...putting casinos in distressed cities as a way of drawing in spending and tax money. From what I recall of the first attempt at casino gambling in Ohio, back in the late 80s/early 90s, was that it was to be limited to distressed metro areas...in fact to just a few cities, such as Lorain, Steubenville, Youngstown, perhaps others. I know Lorain was on the list as the proposal was initially coming from Lorain. This was put to referendum and defeated at the polls, so the issue should, by rights, be dead. Yet we keep talking about it. In any case the article I linked to has plenty of cites to other studies that question casinos as an economic development tool, as well as the negative social aspects of it being a sort of regressive "tax".

The community authority sounds a bit like what was proposed for that 1970s era Newfields New Community near Dayton. The Newfields authority was set up to provide parks and other services, and was funded by a sort of income tax. In this Big Darby case the authority would be funded by property tax. Also, the Newfields authority required special state legislation. I'm not sure if this would be required for the Big Darby version. Other aspects of this also remind me of that Newfields proposal, such as the "town center" concept and the open space set-aside via "conservation developement.

I would say its more of a case of the Dayton person quoted as wanting to put a happy face on the predictment by saying "we're not as bad as Akron", when the situation is as bad or worse. The housing market here is pretty affordable. Oakwood is just the top of the market in some respects, or a desireable inner-city suburb. Oakwood is beocming more like, say, Oak Park outside of Chicago or Takoma Park near DC. A lot of young proffessionals who are socially progressive. like older homes and in-town urban neighborhoods, and want good schools and solid property values, are moving into Oakwood east of Far Hills and that Shantz Park area below the hills. This explains why that anti-gay-marriage amendment was defeated in Oakwood back in 2004. The old stereotype of Oakwood as "old money" is there and still somewhat true, but the reality of the place is changing. But that was a bit of a digression. I decided to graph out the employment situation in terms of payroll by sector...looking at $$$ instead of jobs. This is based on the County Buisness Patterns, and they only go as far as 2003. Also the County Buisness Patterns omit "Government", so Wright-Patterson is not picked up. So, for the private sector, for two years 1998 and 2003: And a comparison. Note that the big three in total annual payroll are not necessarily the big three in actuall number of jobs (compared to upthread)..with a big chunk of annual payroll coming in under the Professional and Buisness Services sector... About Wright-Patterson: Wright Patterson's employment has been declining as per the BLS numbers upthread, but this masks a transfer to consultant and contractor work. This would show up in the professional and buisness services, perhaps, which has been increasing, and contributes a big chunk of cumulative payroll, out of porportion to people actually employed in this sector (highly paid scientists, engineers, and other proffessionals and techincians, as well as managers).

Gary probably had the best approach to casinos. They turned a disused industrial harbor into a casino district (which is somewhat removed from the main part of the city). The casios didn't revive Gary, but provided money the city used to supplement its capital budget to rebuild streets, curbs, sidewalks and other infrastructure. The city govts. reasoning was that competition and the wearing off of the novelty would mean casinos wouldnt be a big cash cow, so the citys take should not be approached as a source for operating revenue, but for capital expenditures. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I have yet to see a good example of an American casino in an urban setting. US casinos are usually hotel/casino combinations surrouned by parking (either via lots or structures), and designed to keep you there spending money, not exploring the surrounding neighborhoods (if there even is one). And they are usually pretty shlocky architecturally. As for casinos as an economic development tool, here is some good words question that Easy Money Among the various arguments against gambling is this one Social Welfare Costs Legalized gambling activities act as a regressive tax on the poor (Clotfelter and Cook 1989). Specifically, the legalization of various forms of gambling activities makes "poor people poorer" and can dramatically intensify many pre-existing social-welfare problems. Demographic analyses reveal that certain disadvantaged socioeconomic groups tend to gamble proportionately greater amounts of their overall income and marketing efforts, particularly by state lotteries, have allegedly been directed at these target groups. In a specific example involving casinos, a 1995 Wisconsin report concluded that "[w]ithout considering the social costs of compulsive gambling, the 'rest-of-the-state' areas lose- or, transfer in- $223.94 million to the local gaming areas. Considering the lowest estimated social costs of problem gambling, the rest of... [Wisconsin] loses $318.61 million to gambling" (Thompson, Gazel, and Rickman 1995). This report also concluded that without casino gambling, many local citizens would have increased participation in other "outside" activities. "More than 10% of the locals would spend more on groceries if it were not for the casino, while nearly one-fourth would spend more on clothes. Thirty-seven percent said that their savings had been reduced since the casino had opened ..." (Thompson, Gazel, and Rickman 1995). Of course the libertarian argument is that this should be freedom of choice. People can choose to gamble or not, and if the choice is a bad one for them, it is a character flaw, and not the concern of the state. Or something like that.

Bellefontaine also had a roundhouse and railroad yard...it was an important junction in 19th and early 20th century railroading. I am planning on heading up that area later this month for a rock festival over at Zane Caverns. Hope to visit the Top of Ohio (Campbell Hill) , Piatt Castles, the whole area up there, and take some pix. Maybe not so much of Bellefontaine as its been done well here...more that neat hilly countryside to the east.

Dayton metro area monthly nonfarm employment in graphs from 1990 thru April 2006, by 10 economic sectors. As this is monthly it will show seasonal swings, but one can discern overall trends, too, over the past 15 years.... Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics ..this includes retail and wholesale trade. The gains made in the 90s have been largely lost. ...this sector includes restaurants and fast food. ...includes nonprofit associations , repair shops, barbers and beauty shops, etc... ...drop in govt. employment reflects the post cold war downsizing of Wright-Patterson, which is the major govt. employer here. The changning distribution of employment in the Dayton metro area by % A more direct comparison by % and by number of employed What all this shows is that the gains made in the 1990s have disappeared, resulting in an small net overall increase in employment between 1990 and 2006. Actually every sector gained a bit from 1990 thru 1995, except for Government and Manufacturing...manufacturing lost 24,000 jobs while Government lost 8,500 The sector that gained the most was Education & Health (probably more in Health), by 16,400. The next largest gainer was Professional and Buisiness Services, by 6,400 jobs, followed by Leisure and Hospitality, with a net gain of 2,900 jobs. Interestingly, Trade, Transportation, & Utilities, which has replaced manufacturing as the largest employment sector, gained only about 600 jobs over the 15 year period. Ranking economic sector by net job creation: 16,400 Education & Health 6,400 Professional & Buisiness Services 2,900 Leisure & Hospitality 2,700 Other 2,200 FIRE 2,000 Inforation 600 Trade, Transportation, & Utilities @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ It would be interesting to open up the manufacturing roll-up by sub-category and also compare the sectors by cumulative payroll to see how much income was lost over time.

Dayton Daily News op-ed roundtable discussion: Is the Dayton area economy in trouble?

There was that story about the guy who got fried trying to strip power cable at the old Aetna Paper mill, turns out the power was near a RR ROW and was active. And when I was out shooting West Dayton a few weeks ago I spotted some guys stripping stuff from whats left of the old McCall Printing plant.

The Dayton Daily News ....check out their op-ed on the issue: OUR VIEW on ending homelessness Make life on street thing of the past By the Dayton Daily News Montgomery County Administrator Deborah Feldman is refusing to accept the conventional wisdom that homelessness is a sad fact of life that can be managed but not solved. Next week she'll present a task force's findings and recommendations on how to actually fix the problem to the Montgomery County and Dayton City commissions. The ideas deserve enthusiastic support — they're about good government and moral leadership. What the task force found defied its expectations: Families with children, not down-and-out drifters, make up most of Montgomery County's homeless. Poverty puts them on the street. Timely payments of $500 to prevent evictions could keep many from ever becoming homeless. That's a wise investment compared with the $5,000 it takes, on average, to find new housing for a family — to say nothing of the incalculable misery experienced by a child constantly on the move...

^ yes, I am on the same page with you. The question for me sometimes is "how much else could we buy for the unit cost of one F22?" With declining Federal funds us local folks need to step up to the plate. Contributing via the United Way to homeless shelters and food banks is one thing, but it seesm so little compared to the need the story continues on the shelter situation here and the plight of homeless families. For families, St. Vincent Hotel a 24-hour shelter The drive to deal with the homeless problem will include the relocation of the Other Place. By Margo Rutledge Kissell Staff Writer DAYTON — Carla Pitsinger is glad St. Vincent Hotel becomes a 24-hour shelter for families today. "I know that will make things 110 percent easier for families with kids," said the 41-year-old Clayton woman, who has been coming to the overnight shelter with her daughter, Hannah, 16, since they lost their subsidized apartment a month ago. Extending the hours of the 120 W. Apple St. shelter — while continuing its role as an emergency, overnight shelter for single adults — was made possible through $500,000 Montgomery County commissioners approved in May. It was the first chunk of funding aimed at the homeless problem as part of a new community initiative...