Jeff

College football stadiums seem to be located on the old research farm or on a lot of open space. I think that was the case with OSU and UofK stadiums. UofL was located on the L&N Railroads South Louisville yards and shops. So instead of an abandoned railroad yard there is acres of parking and a big stadium, though I wonder if that parking does double duty for Churchill Downs during the Derby as this stadium is pretty close.

Louisville, Lexington, and , uh, Ashland?

^ I'll moderate that one.

oh, I road the rapid from Terminal Tower to that Universit Circle area, where that bus transfer point is, on that parkway, then walked up Euclid to catch the Rapid at the Euclid station, there, then rode it to the airport and then back again to the Terminal Tower. & Yes, I meant Westside Market...the one with the big tower and the produce stands around the outside. I thought it was kind of odd that the rapid didnt have a station on a I think Mayfield, or whatever the main drag is of Little Italy, as it runs right by there and has stations on either side.

In all honesty, riding the rapid from Euclid to the airport, there still is a lot of abandoned & run-down stuff in Cleveland. But boring it isnt. What makes the place interesting is not what Frommer is picking up on, but things like Western Market, which is still a real, unsantized and unyuppified market, not a festival market. or places like that Asiatown, which looks like a spotaneous, natural neighborhood that is developing on its own, not some fakey or puffed-up "district", or that Ohio City area around the Western Market, which looks like a real old-fashioned neighborhood that hasnt been gentrified to death.

everybody seems to be getting a modern art museum these days. Believe it or not, Dayton has or had one. It was (or is) tucked in the WSU fine arts building, one room for the very small permanent collection, the other an exhibition space (which is really used by the WSU art school, but hosts or hosted travelling exhibits for the museum). I came across it when I first move here and was involved with Presevation Dayton. It turns out the museum director, a Philly transplant, lived in St Annes Hill, and was active in the local presevation scene. I recall an evening stuffing envelopes whith him and his girlfreind or wife, talking about art and his plans. I seem to recall he wanted to grow the museum here into a real contemporary/modern art center, with broader communit support than just WSU. He did do some controversial (well not really for Dayton as everyone just yawned) things like bringing in a Mapplethorpe/Serrano show (I guess the one that got the CAC shut down, or an abridged version of it), and things like that. He was good at publicsing the museum and getting the word out that things where happening over at WSU & to go see it.... Unfortunaly for Dayton he was offered a the job as director of a private gallery in the Main Line, so it was a move home for him back to Philly. The musuem sort of faded from view after he left, and I don't know if its even open anymore or what happened to the collection. I sometimes think this was a lost opportunity get a modern art center there, but then, realistically, would that ever have happened? Just another "what if". @@@@@@@@@ The Detroit musuem sounds almost guerilla or 'punkitecture'. That was a good article too. ..how much is Zago dealing in a stereotype or an expectation of what "Detroit" is or should be?

A continuation of this thread Kent State University Jack Kremers (Faculty Advisor) Tony Mustachio Rob Maschuke Von-Lee Chan Hong Bieng Chan Siew Ong Design Synopsis 1 Existing Environment 1. Historic Center of the city is located at Third and Main Streets. This is the center point of the community 2. The river provides opportunity for development and community activity 3. Patterson Boulevard and Commons form a meaningful historic wall. 4. Oregon district provides successful housing restoration and thus serves as a valuable node. II Problems 1. The city focuses inwardly and turns its back on the river and suburbs 2. There is a lack of affordable housing in Dayton 3. There is a lack of entertainment and social places for evening activities 4. Vehicular and pedestrian path relationships are not clearly defined. III Goals 1. To energize the city by providing nodes of act ivies which link the larger downtown area through pedestrian movement and residential units to institutional, commercial, and entertainment areas. 2. To tie the perimeter residential areas, both existing and potential, to the city core. 3. To develop the community in phases to reflect change as a continuum an as an expression of energies and resources. IV Objectives 1. Develop initial residential/commercial concept at Southwest corner of Second and St Clair Streets. 2. Develop movement directions toward the river from initial residential development as a catalyst for concentration of entertainment and cultural activities along the river. 3. Develop movement directions toward Ludlow St to link to major paths with new development. V Future Phases 1. Develop infill housing on the west side at Patterson Boulevard to strengthen residential character. Existing housing is too scattered and disparate. Continue development of low rise and scale housing with emphasis on good design and character. Provide for low and middle income groups of residents. 2. Develop infill housing on the east side of Patterson Boulevard and at Patterson Commons. Strengthen fabric and wall of central development. 3. Strengthen pedestrian links from new housing toward Main Street and toward the river. 4. Develop riverfront with entertainment areas and a museum. Consider an entry tower to Dayton at Main Street and the River. Restaurants would also be a valuable asset. 5. VI Summary Our concept is to initiate relatively modest scale unit size and overall quantity housing units at St Clair and Second Street and from these ties provide movement and energy links to the larger community. Over time these ideas will generate increasingly larger developments which ultimately unite and express what Dayton can be.[/i] (the Kent team took the design brief pretty seriously, taking a block and really developing it out as urban housing. I notice they do do some funky things with the site planning though, too, similar a bit to OSU, by playing around with the river shore at the intersection of Patterson and Monument.) (im not sure I am really that fond of this design, but it does address parking, with that sunken parking garage) Miami University Tom Briner (Faculty Adivsor) Pete Coffin Jeff Paddock Mary Rogero-Merritt John Fabelo Shou Ning Our group walked the area and found little in the way of scale, use, or character that provided fabric into which might be woven housing development. Consequently, our approach was to think about housing that could produce its own appeal. Another assumption was made with regard to scale: the team to did not believe that tall “high-rise” housing would be accepted, i.e. marketable. We presumed that the Cooper Park housing represented a density that a) locals favor and b) keeps development costs in line with what the housing market can support. As we thought about alternatives, we considered 30 units per acre to be the minimum density. In fact our sketch proposal, on average, exceeds that minimum. We figured about 850 additional units to the area. made up of 800 in new construction, and perhaps 50 units as studio/apartments (possibly condominium) units in existing buildings east of Patterson Blvd. At the present Mendelson parking lot, south of Monument and west of Webster (we thought Webster came closer to being a natural boundary to this community), the team put together a parti of the three story units (duplex and four-plex type) approached by a narrow walk separating garages and open parking areas form the street. Thus, pedestrians would have a similar, intimate scale walking environment that we had hoped would recall some of those narrow tree, protected walks in the Oregon area. To the rear of these units would be a common space which would only be slightly noticed through the narrow openings or side yards between the housing units. Again, in the spirit of what we saw in happening in the Oregon area. the exception to this would be the housing on Monument Avenue, which would be more compact and, at points, taller in order to look over River Bend Park. The team thought that other larger scale housing development could be supported by the context of Third Street. Between Second and Third are proposed six to eight story buildings with interior courts, two story living units stacked above one another with exposure to a “mall” extending from Webster to Patterson Boulevard. The team was quite taken with the existing rear elevations of the Third Street buildings. We believe that this “wall” of buildings made a terrific edge to the open space. This mall would then connect across Patterson Boulevard to Cooper Park and to the CBD beyond. There could be about 400 units in this housing. The variety of housing, type, and scale, provides potential for alternative development strategies. The walk-up housing could be developed in increments of half blocks. We assumed that this housing must be successfully developed in order for the private impetus, market interest- and time for demolition that might be required for the larger development behind Third Street. An idea was to have one developer commit to projects in both area, in essence: constructing the first phase, walk-up type “at cost”, in order to acquire development rights for the larger projects. Our group thought to acknowledge, strengthen, or create visual and circulation connections. Third St. as a main entry to downtown lacks mass on the south side. Our drawings suggest adding a building here, perhaps a warehousing facility. Other than the retail that is created by the increased housing, nothing is suggested that could dilute the retail activity within the CBD. What retail that might occur would be on Third St. As the only bus route into the CBD, we saw this as a collector serving the residents of walk-ups, who would walk south to the “Church District” and cross the mall to Third St. Patterson Blvd was seen as a barrier between the study area and the CBD. Our group thought the street is too wide and the one-way traffic makes the street a wasteland except when business let out (At which time it become curb-to-curb raceway- not conducive to pedestrian crossings). Our proposal takes one lane from the street and locates buildings close to the new eastern edge. These buildings might house movie theatres and other night life activities that could relate to the Victoria Theatre and Memorial down First St., and perhaps become a link or deflector of this kind of activity towards a new Performance Center at the head of Patterson Boulevard bridge. At the south end of Patterson Boulevard, the group proposed utilitizing one of the old canal buildings as restaurants which might enjoy a new environment created by a produce/open market a la Haymarket Square, Boston, or the old Les Halles district of Paris. This would tie into the diner district and further tie into the dining/entertainment areas within Oregon. By creating some popular attractions along Patterson we hoped for a connection between Oregon housing (old) and new housing previously described. (When I first saw this scheme I didn’t think it was too inspired, but now I like it more, and can appreciate what they where trying to do with the scale of buildings, using these blocky loft-like buildings near Third to fit in with the context of the remnant loft building), and the lower townhouse style elseswhere, trying to recreate the feel of the Oregon district. And that mall connecting with Cooper Park seems like a nice touch too.) (I now can appreciate what they where trying to do along Patterson, using that area as sort of a market to connect with the Oregon and the “Diner district” (the area around the Neon and the Pearl. This would have been historically accurate, too, as the area along St Clair and Kenton was Dayton’s old wholesale produce district. The desolation along Patterson is one of the things that separates the Oregon activity from the rest of downtown. Unfortunatly the "canal buildings" mentioned in their text where torn down in the early 1990s)

If the librarys here are so good how come Ohioans are so pig-fucking ignorant

no doubt,and I'm not going to waste my time reposting them here. Interesting article on the REX parnters. I'm curious what else they have on the boards.

...honestly, I am really suprised they are able to bring some of these ruins back to life.

Its over in Carillon Park now, near the back part of the park.

Its impossible to have a serious discussion here on these buildings, or anything related to Kentucky for that matter, good or bad, becuase of this "becuase its in Kentucky, it sucks" attitude.

From the link: The McGregor Institute for Intellectual Development (MIIND) seeks to provide engaging learning opportunities to adults who believe that exercise of the mind is essential to maintaining a youthful and vigorous quality of life. Modeled after the Chautauqua Institute in New York, MIIND is focused on providing an educational experience that will be attractive to: Enthusiasts of a particular discipline Current Antioch McGregor undergraduates seeking summer credits (4 quarter/ 2.5 semester) Professionals seeking to enhance knowledge in their field Anyone who values learning and wants to have a fun time doing it *Educational Leaders Seminar Series (ELSS): Graduate-level courses for educators who wish to continue their education This summer we will begin by piloting 3 week long seminars hosted by Jerry Holt, Dean of Liberal Studies at Antioch University McGregor. Playwright, published author, and educator, Jerry’s enthusiasm for each of the subject is personal and palpable, building on over 20 years as an academic and performer. This summer’s seminars all run Monday through Friday, from 9 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., with an optional, but highly recommended, Thursday night mystery soiree. Each session can admit a maximum of 40 students. June 26-30: Ohio’s Secret History Unravel the true stories behind The Bizarre History of the Serpent Mound, The Amazing – and Gut Wrenching – Way the First Settlers of Southern Ohio Dealt with Disease, and many more AMAZING tales (almost as good as the comic book.) July 17-21: The Holocaust Co-Sponsored by the Ohio Council on Holocaust Education, this one-week session focuses primarily on the Holocaust and contemporary Germany. August 21-26: Produced and Abandoned: The Greatest Movies You Never Saw Screen at least five films that Hollywood let slip through its fingers. Special Surprise Guests and Free Popcorn at every session. October 16-20: The Celluloid Scream focuses on the cultural significance of terror in the cinema. In other words, for adults who don't have 9 to 5 jobs but have a lot of free time (and tuition money...these seminars cost $1076 per seminar)... This reminds me of some of the adult education that was being offered in Sacramento when I lived there, by UC Davis, I think, where one would pay a rather hefty tuition to learn how to run an art gallery, or how to taste wine, and things like that. .

I wonder what that is all about.

Winton Place could be renamed Cemetary Corners. Or just change the name of Winton Terrace apts to something else?

I wondering what this looks like in section. I can understand the lack of windows due to the nature of galleries, but I hope its not merely "stacking boxes".

I have some pix (not very good) of the building plans & sections that I thought I posted here and at SSP. Or maybe it was just at SSP.

Its just some similar opinions, and I liked his comments about 'scenes': Name-dropping, with names only the cognoscenti will "get". For some name dropping of my own, see if you can find Tom Franks "Consolidated Deviance" parody, or his good book The Conquest of Cool, Buisiness Culture, Counterculture, and the rise of Hip Consumerism Before Frank became a political guy he was a cult-stud stud. Fun stuff! And for a parting shot, since this is an urbanism board.... Landscape Urbanism Bullshit Generator (beta) (go ahead, click on the link, dont be shy)

(one of the first things I got involved with or started to go to when I moved to Dayton in 1988 where those “Cityscape/Cityshape forums, which is how I became involved with this charette, as a “citizen participant” , not as a designer. The city had just finished an urban design plan for Main Street and was implementing streetscape improvements, so apparently saw this as a good way of generating some interest in housing proposals. Well, it didn’t work that way as the citizen input during this charette is what led to the interest and focus not on Main Street, but on what is now Webster Station (it wasn’t called that then) and its remnant old buildings as a possible housing site for new and loft housing…this is where that all started. So the site and a loose program was given to four design teams from the four Ohio architecture schools, who produced four proposals for the area. I was present at the presentation, which was almost sort of like a jury as the Ohio architects here on a convention did a lot of jury-style critiques of the designs. It was a memorable evening. So, years later, I receive a letter from the Dayton planning department, letting me know that they published a little booklet of the designs and the design teams statements. I thought you all might be interested in this, so I scanned the graphics (not all the graphics I remember at the presentation are in the booklet) and provide the designers’ statements so you can read in their own words what they had in mind. I then follow with some of my own remarks. Starting out with the two most conceptual designs, from University of Cincinnati and Ohio State. The more realistic Kent State and Miami designs and statements will be posted later.) University of Cincinnati Aust Rusli (Faculty Advisor) Terry Boling Frank Gartiner Jim Guthrie Joel Huffman Ed Tingley I Introduction Without some preconception of what a city should be, and without any aesthetic prejudice, Dayton, Ohio in 1988 seems to be the quintessential small Midwestern North American City… Besides the usual neighborhood sentiment longing for some unidentified sense of belonging, the concern of Dayton was presented as one of character/image/identity of the city. What perhaps was perceived as the most disturbing is the existence of the empty lots in the city, the gaps between buildings and the lone building standing “in search for some company”. This scheme addresses this concern to rectify the gaps between buildings less as a problem to be solved, but as a condition to be offered an idea. The scheme attempts to offer a vision that is appropriate for the American City condition of this time. II Hypotheses The hypothesis adapted for this project is that the American city is always already incomplete. Within the existing social-political –economic climate of this country, and its role in city-making, the perfect completeness of the city is an illusion. The task, therefore is to rectify the disturbance of empty lots, the gaps between buildings, without making it comprehensively complete, which would not be (if ever) possible. The American City is not a permanent, finite, and closed system. It was born temporary and stays that way. As a moving landscape it continually changes faster than its inhabitants (thus, for example, differing from the European city, which outlives its inhabitants). Like successive waves, the American city comes ashore, each time displacing what was there and replacing it with what is new and needed. With expediency as the only criteria, this displacement and replacement is never complete: left are the fragment of the remnants of the past and the empty sites for the future, and the extreme juxtaposition between them and the present environment. If the city is not a shell to be thickened by adding layers, to be patched up by filling holes, the question is then: how to fulfill the gaps of the city without filling them up? III Proposal The scheme attempts to avoid the influence of the European, pre-industrial city precedents, and the imposition of an alien structure to the existing structure of the city. Instead the scheme looks at the nature of the growth of the North American city as a way to mature. The grid system for the North American city should be considered a genetic ‘structure’, a blueprint of the city that could be replicated at will. Thus historical, in the founding of North American cities, the grid system has quickly settled in the forest clearing, near the river at the foot of a mountain, near a mine/petroleum field, to establish itself as the structure of the city. Similarly, a “genetic structure’ for Dayton-a system of site and massing organization at the city block scale equivalent to the grid system at the regional scale- is therefore chosen This genetic structure block is a “perfect approximation”. It contains all the genetic information of the city which satisfies all the essential qualifications of the Mid-Western North American city of Dayton. Thus the block between Patterson Boulevard and First Street posses the properties of being: 1. incomplete: not a fabric of a full perimeter block massing; instead it contains an empty lot and a partially set back and partially punctured street wall. 2. extremely juxtaposed by incongruous building types, sizes at different scale, sting and use 3. the “island of resistance”, the site of significant survivals which were never intended to be monuments. Like the grid system at the regional scale, this genetic structure block at the city scale is replicated infinitely over the available site. That is, the site of the then charette program is as well as the empty lots in the city, the gaps between the buildings in Dayton. Throughout the given site and the city, each of these clones of the Patterson Block is modified by their corresponding local imperfections, circumstantial resistance such a the existing buildings, building programs, etc, that gives each clone its character, the image and identity specific to their site and use. Like one of the many waves of the North American city growth, this cloning system washes the given building site and the empty lots in the city blocks, incompletely, with one genetic structure. The wave of this genetic structure posits the given site and the city with a housing scheme, a shopping strip, an urban park, and a number of city facilities: phone booths, police kiosks, newspaper stands, bus shelters, etc. Subsequently this intervention will be washed away, imperfectly, by the next wave of intervention, which comprises of another genetic structure. One example casts its shadow of the Wright Brothers bi-plane on Dayton’s datum line, in the form of the day footpath and the night-lighting system. (Some blow-ups of the study area) (so here we see the waves (eddies? ripples?) of change washing across Dayton, eroding the city and leaving their own residue. Or so I’m reading this. But what is generating the alternative form crossing the street grid? I love the design teams statement, the way they look a the city, but does this aesthetic intention necessarily result in the form we see here? One sees a bit of Liebskind in his Micromegas period, or Zaha’s work, or maybe even Michael Sorkin. Decon was still pretty fresh in 1988. I think this is read as a purley conceptual proposal, as a way of thinking about the city, and in the way it is perhaps the most humble or pragmatic attitude of the four, though the form here is really extreme ) Ohio State University Jacqueline Gargus (Faculty Advisor) Marcia Baschnagel Steven Bohlen Juan Elejabeitia Ernie Nepmechio Gary Sebach I General Strategy Assigned the task of inserting new housing in the warehouse district of Dayton, our first interest was to try to understand the structure of Dayton beyond the immediate limits of the site. In this way we hoped that our intervention would not merely address the highly localized concerns of a few city blocks, but rather provide a strategy for knitting Dayton’s frayed urban fabric back together again. Furthermore, by gaining an understanding of Dayton’s urban and industrial history, we hoped to connect meaningful references and images particular to Dayton. In doing so we hoped to make an intervention that could truly recharge the neighborhood and make it possible to see and use all of Dayton in new ways. II Analysis A. Currrent Problems 1. Streets (especially Patterson Boulevard) are too wide to provide the proper sense of density and animation along their edges. Because of this, tbey make the city seem more desolate than it really is. 2. The river, which could be one of Dayton’s greatest ornaments is visually and physically cut off from the rest of the town. 3. Parks are scarce in downtown Dayton. In addition there is no clear relationship of the park system from the south of town to the center. 4. Connections are tenuous amongst the active parts of Dayton, such as Courthouse Square, the Convetnion Center, the Oregon District, etc. The discontinuity amongst these busy parts of the city reduces the overall vitality of the town and improvishes the experience of the city as a whole. 5. Parking lots proliferate. B. Historical Palmpsest 1. Coopers Green Central Park, 1805. At one time of Dayton’s foundation in 1805 Cooper envisioned the city structured around a green central square. Dayton does not have a clearcenter today. Its ostensible center, Courthouse Square, is too full of buildings to act as a powerfull, central organizing figure in the city. 2. The Old Canal In 1840 a canal was built to circumvent the bend in the Miami River and facilitate the growth of industry in Dayton. Although the canal has long since fallen into disuse, its imprint is now marked by Patterson Boulevard. The street follows the depression of the old canal in a diagonal course, contrasting with the north-south grid of the city. While the old canal provided a direct link between the river and the city, and the fairgrounds south of the city, Patterson Boulevard acts more as a barrier, limiting growth of the city to the east. 3. Dayton’s Industrial Heritage. The city of the Wright Brothers, Dayton emerged at the turn of the century as a major industrial center in the Midwest. Fine industrial buildings of that vintage are still organized east of Patterson Boulevard, although many of them have been abandoned as industries have moved their old urban loci to new suburban sites. As a result of the burgeoning of industry in Dayton during a relatively brief period of time, the architectural character of the Old Warehouse District is amongst the strongest and most cohesive of all the built environments of Dayton. While there is presently very little residential use in the area, many of these older buildings could be converted into loft apartments. With the proper density of residential use and a little commercial activity (neighborhood groceries, drug stores, laundries, etc) the Warehouse District could easily become an attractive and viable new neighborhood. The proximity of the area to downtown and its architectural fabric of old buildings historically significant to Dayton’s industrial past would help to imbed subsequent interventions in the area into the life and history of the city. III Proposal 1. The Canal We propose that the canal be re-evoked and developed as a linear park, extending along the entire route of the old canal. Patterson Blvd. Would be narrowed, pushed to the westernmost edge of its current location and be elevated on grade with St. Clair Street. The rest of the area of the old canal would be depressed to make a stronger connection to the river and to segregated the new park from automobile traffic. The resultant green corridor would make a strong connection between Deeds Point at the confluence of the Great Miami and the Mad River…and the Fairgrounds. Hence just the parkway links City Hall to Fairmount Park in Philadelphia, or Olmsted’s “Emerald Necklace” of parks creates a highly varied green swath connecting all of greater Boston, the Canal Park in Dayton could link Dayton’s entire park system together as a unified whole. Such a park along Patterson Boulevard would also serve to fill the rift between downtown and the eastern part of town while providing linkage to south of the Convention Center and the Oregon District. Furthermore, the park system could be used as an armature to organize new development along its edges… The park level at the mouth of the old canal could be depressed to be continuous with the rivers edge.. Hence the city would finally have a connection with the river. 2. Cooper’s Green Central Square. The present Cooper Park would be extended westwards for another block. This gesture would permit the new Canal Park system to permeate further into the center of town, almost linking it to Courthouse Square. The alley between Second and Third would be developed as an outdoor bazaar to complete toe connection of the new park system to the symbolic center of town. In this way, Cooper’s vision of a green center square for Dayton could be re-evoked. Wide streets would be scaled down and articulated with plantings to further extend the permeation of parkways and boulevards throughout the town. Cafes, ice cream parlors, snack shops, and the like would be placed along the rivers edge to further enliven the area strengthen the role of the river in the life of the city. 2. Dayton’s Industrial Heritage: a source for new housing. Loft apartments would be developed in some converted, rehabilitated, warehouse buildings. Picturesque ruins recalling Dayton’s heroic age of industrialism would be created from the industrial buildings at the bend of Patterson Boulevard. The ruined frames of these building would form a kind of Acropolis, commanding imposing views down the parkway and out towards the river. Smaller scale, more temporary houses and shops might grow out of the old buildings much as the medieval houses in Rome agglomerated along the edges of the ancient colossi. New row housing would be organized along the new park system. Structured behind a girded, utilitarian armature, reminiscent of the structural frames of nearby loft buildings, the new housing would be capable of accepting great programmatic diversity while maintaining formal cohesion amongst the parts. Colorful infill panels or modules would provide a highly textured, variegated surface in contrast with the neutral gridded frame…By adopting the language of the enormous warehouse buildings for domestic use, the former will appear more humane and the latter less intrusively sweet. Urban camouflage, painted murals, will be use to aggressively transfigure parts of the area that are otherwise too timid or out of character…. (The study area, blown up and colored to show the landscaping. Many of the drawings for OSU where on canary yellow trace, with lots of prismacolor/marker work. Quite fetching, actually) (blowup showing some of the features mentioned in the text) (rendering showing the Kettering Tower on axis with the expanded Cooper Park) (I recall the faculty lead here as being really young, my age at the time…in her 20s. Though mostly unrealistic I recall this was my favorite design. Closing St Clair and expanding Cooper Park (into what is now a big parking lot), surrounded and surrounding it by infill buildings really seems do-able and would create a “Dave Hall Plaza” for the north side of downtown, but one that could be connected to Courthouse Square via that activated alley. I really liked the expanded Cooper Park. The reconstruction of the canal and extension of the river lowlands was a real nice touch too, sort of reminded me of Olmstead’s Fenway or the Panhandle at Golden Gate Park, extending a larger park or park system into the city via a parkway….also note the regional thinking in their design statement. The audience pointed out that this would never work due to flood control issues, but the idea of somehow re-creating or referencing the canal stayed current in Dayton, until being incorporated into Riverscape via another citizen-input charette, run by EDAW. I also sort of liked the industrial ruin concept too, leaving the old factory building structural frames as gigantic ruin/sculptures that could be infilled at will. This really caused some consternation with the audience. They had renderings of this but they where not included in the booklet. So these where the more out-there designs of the charette. But you can see the analyses of Dayton circa 1988 wasn’t too different for today, and the sources of some of the ideas that came into play in the late 1990s, when Webster Station started to become real. Later in the week, the Miami and Kent State submissions….)

Reading JMecklenborgs posts upthread made me think of that line from Alexander Pope: "What was oft thought but ne'er so well expressed"....he's put into words a lot of what I think about this whole "hip/bohemia" phenomenon. This sounds like a large number of people, but does "hip" appeal to all or even most of the "25-34 year old college educated people"? Maybe finding a good job based on their education (which might not be in "the arts"), as well as a place to raise a familiy might appeal too? The issue about economic growth is also a bit confused, I think. Perhaps a place that would attract people is one that is entrepeneurial enough to see a lot of new buisness formation and growth based on economic and technological creativity y....the cultural creativty one could associate with the concept of "hip" would be a consequence of the incomes and wealth produced by economic and technological creativity.

This sounds pretty good as it demonstrates the movers and shakers in Cincy are supporting preserving the neighborhood with their money. This: "...whose strategy is to buy entire blocks." ...sounds a lot like was originally proposed for the Oregon district in Dayton in the 1960s, where the approach was to rehabilitate the neighborhood as one package rather than an individual house by house approach that was eventually used. Thats over 40% of the buildings in OTR. The place doesn't seem that vacant driving through. .

Thats a funny observation as I was in downtown Cincinnati for a good part of the afternoon today (on a weekend), and was thinking how great it was to have a downtown nearby where you know you're downtown, one that still as a fair amount of people using it on a Saturday during the day. Of course this writer works downtown, so probably wouldn't find going back downtown on a weekend something special to do.

Oh, i was just wondering why you would question taking a fairly major campus building seriously...i was trying to look at it more from a architectural design POV. Than building I think is some sort of research faclity, but its on the UofL campus, I think, not NKU. U of L is done up mostly in brick, including the modern buildings on campus.

The arena is going to happen as the state has set aside money for it. The phase III of the riverfront park is going to happen, too, pretty close to as designed (though they are going to modify the ramp up to the Big Four Bridge due to soil stability issues). I'd say of all these MP is probably the one that stands the greatest chance for signifigant modification.

I agree....this is a key point The sheriffs are the one trying to do the enforcement, so give them the law they need.