Dino

I'm surprised they aren't demo'ing and starting from scratch. Plus, apartments with an indoor pool and rooftop terrace? This project is really surprising and unique to me- in a good way. Cool.

All true. This is a very appropriate, even transformational project for a city of Cleveland's size and stature. The criticism and dissatisfaction with it is a little unwarranted. But I kind of love that Cleveland generally has the ego of top ten American city even though it hasn't been for about 40 or 50 years. It's why other cities think we're crazy and why I'm proud to be a Clevelander. We got moxie! We deserve that 1000 footer darn it!

Very fancy.

I think that's a pretty good comparison to SHW. Nice find!

Kudos to Knez. Even though it's not far at all, this feels like a big step outside of the UC periphery and into Glenville. I hope the development does well and investments keep expanding.

Developers partner up with each other for a lot of reasons. To limit risk, to access more capital, to leverage each other's strengths, etc. It's not uncommon at all.

I won't comment on WHAT they are doing, but I do applaud Bedrock on their follow through. When they say they are going to do something, it usually happens, and usually happens relatively quickly.

The Lever house in NYC is famous for it's architecture in general, but notable in the fact that they only built on about quarter of a prime piece of Manhattan real estate. The rest of the site was outdoor space and a "floating" second floor. It was seen as a status symbol at the time- like they were so rich that they didn't have to fully develop their expensive piece of land. That seems to be the exact opposite of SHW's mentality, which is why I find the pavilion so puzzling. It seems to imply a lot that is contrary to their conservative, pragmatic, fiscally responsible, way of thinking.

Also, based on the images and the model, the pavilion does not appear to shown as 50' tall. It looks more like 30'-40' maybe.

Not even close! I'd like to see something substantial on that lot. I was just researching other building heights to try and picture the scale of the pavilion. The courthouse is 65', the Renaissance Hotel is 162' tall, May Co is 150', which means atrium of 200 PS is about 150' as well. The Global Center for Health Innovation (not on PS) is 50' tall. It has a bigger footprint, but is otherwise a pretty good comparison for size.

So, per KJP's reporting the pavilion will be 2 stories, but have high floor to floor heights and will likely be about 50' tall. That is the height of a normal 4 story building. For reference, the courthouse across the square is 65' tall. Atrium at 200 PS looks like it might be 75' tall

I like the way they broke up the massing of the tower. It looks like two slender towers instead of one bulky tower-that was a good move. The vertical notch on the east and west elevations also breaks up the large expanse of wall which also accentuates the verticality and make the building look more slender. I think the angled tops look nice too. I didn't mind it on the Jacobs lot either, but think it works just as well where it is. Not much to say about the pavilion or garage that hasn't already been said.

I think the sky bridges are a forgone conclusion just like Frankfort Ave. Sky bridges don't have to be after thoughts though. They can be cool ways to connect separate buildings into one comprehensive design. These won't- but they could! I'm starting to think the original Nucleus design might have worked well on this site. It would have allowed them to have separate buildings connected in a cool and unified design.

I'm resigned to the idea that Frankfort was a lost cause. I just wished it could have been leveraged for something else. Maybe it was and we aren't aware, but it feels like it was given up without much in return. Does anyone else find the green space at the southeast corner of the Jacobs lot a little out of place? I feel like PS should be treated like an outdoor room with 4 walls, and that notch seems weird to me.

Good point. Way to alienate an entire region that was rooting for you and gave you millions of dollars SHW.

I'm guessing the City will approve this but ask for a public right of way easement in exchange for vacating the street. This would maintain the "street", but allow SHW off the hook for the liner building and most likely avoid variances and easements required for the bridge they want to do. And if that's what happens, it's probably not the end of the world. But...this is exactly why I'm frustrated the design is not being shared. Decisions are being made quietly and without anyone seeing the "big picture". Landmarks typically requires seeing proposals for new construction before approving a demo; sometimes they make approval contingent on pulling the permit for new construction. I think CPC should at least demand to see the actual designs (thereby making them public) for the development before acting on this.

Based on the code, I believe the liner building would be required at Frankfort as well. Only frontages on alleys, ways, and courts are exempt, and I don't think Frankfort qualifies as an alley- see below. I believe it is a 40' ROW § 325.04 Alley “Alley” means any public space or thoroughfare twenty (20) feet or less in width, but not less than ten (10) feet in width, which has been dedicated or deeded to the public for public travel and affords access to abutting property.

No, no, no, it won't look like anything we have here in Cleveland. I mean, we're told it will resemble the world class architecture of suburban Toronto. So...yay!

I'm glad CPC is involved and the approval process is being expedited, but also very frustrated that there's zero public involvement. Small business owners and homeowners can sometimes spend months getting put through the ringer at local design review, Landmarks and CPC for things like signage, roof replacements, and minor rehabs. Think of what developers in Ohio City, Tremont, or Little Italy have to go through. Meanwhile perhaps the most important project in a generation won't be made public until it is more or less already approved? I'm not saying they should spend a year scrutinizing every little detail of the SHW project, but is it too much to ask to see a rendering?

Way to keep a good attitude! I find it hard to remain upbeat though. It's kind of like finding out the Browns are coming back in 1999 but knowing that they are going to be a disaster for 20 years. Thankful? Yes. Excited? Hopeful? Not so much. But you're right. At least we have a team/skyscraper. That's something, right?

Things won't change until we have regionalization. The City bears the brunt of the cost and operation for many of our regional assets but only has about 25% of the population- and it's the poorest part of the population at that. Yes, the City of Cleveland could use better leaders, but they are working at a severe disadvantage to the suburbs. The suburbs only have to focus on their own town. The City of Cleveland in many ways serves the whole county, and then some. There needs to be a level playing field and an acceptance that city boundaries really don't matter much. Really all of Cuyahoga County is "Cleveland", right?

Thanks. I wasn't sure how firm the Magellan project was, but if you are confident in that and the project brewing than maybe we're cooking!

^Maybe this should be in the Random Development thread

I just estimated about 10 acres of surface parking in the Warehouse district. SHW is the only project announced so far. All the other projects are only proposals at this point. Are some of these proposed projects more definite and forthcoming than expected?

Prediction just for fun...I'm going to say the next whale is the Bedrock Riverfront site. From what I know about them, once they have a plan, they just go for it. I'm guessing they had some pretty detailed plans made back when they were wooing SHW and now that SHW passed, Bedrock's just going to go ahead and build it anyway. Capital usually isn't a problem for them so TMUD and market conditions aren't as crucial to them as it is for other developers, plus Rocket Mortgage is growing anyway. If they build now they could snap up tenants like Cleveland Cliffs and possibly poach Nucleus tenants, while other developers are biding their time. They'll probably add a healthy dose of residential to the development while they're at it and maybe tie it into Tower City too.