surfohio

If/when the amendment passes we can expect another more restrictive proposition from the other side. This is absolutely going to be an ongoing thing as long as there's no more Issue 1's on the horizon.

If it's any consolation I'm betting that in 30 years vehicles will be quieter.

I think this national poll can shed some light on where things may eventually end up. Prediction is that in Ohio and elsewhere, most states will be looking at restrictions between 3-6 months with strong polling toward retaining health/rape/incest exceptions. https://www.npr.org/2023/04/26/1171863775/poll-americans-want-abortion-restrictions-but-not-as-far-as-red-states-are-going

Animal welfare site re: Ohio Overall Rank: #25 (Middle Tier) https://aldf.org/project/us-state-rankings/

^ What else do you do in that guys situation? A lot of times these stations are no-mans land. Even if you stay on the train all the way to the airport you are a sitting duck before then.

It's asinine. You just have to laugh anymore. When your states highest paid public employee is A FOOTBALL COACH we've gone full idiocracy.

Mike Gonidakis lol. Definitely the least popular guy in my school....even less popular than the guy who became the serial flasher in Columbus.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but Tower City has a really impressive lobby. Not sure what else is in there now though :-(

Good thread on reddit and response by neorsd:

At least with Coastal CA there are pretty clear cut rules for height as well as maintaining public access to the water. As for the latter I wish we had that here instead of constantly relying on developers to do the right thing.

^ and to think just a few weeks ago San Diego State was seemingly willing to pay millions in penalties to bolt the Mountain West for this doomed conference

^^ Wow that's a stark difference. Unfortunately I fear the story of the lakefront has largely been written because of such bad management. At least as far as beaches and public access to the actual water goes. One silver lining in the NCH plan is the realization that there is value in getting back what we've lost in some capacity.

Just a note on this...once you armor the shoreline you are essentially trading away beaches for a long long time. Erosion is the natural process that replenishes beaches and Ohio is the textbook example where overdevelopment has killed this process. Building in too-close proximity to the water has created a "problem" that, with more insightful planning, should never have been be a problem at all.

@Dinoheck man you're right. Not much there at all....Wolstein, a low rise parking garage and STJ transit which could be realigned and get more use. Seems very doable.

^^^^ It would be really interesting to see what kind of spinoff that south of muny location could inspire. A few more hotels? Sports and well ness facilities? Athletic fields for the public or share with CSU? A 72 acre beer garden for Noble? Fun to think about anyhow. If the stadium were getting a roof (and yes that's a big IF lol and lets absolutely make it retractable since we're dreaming here) I'd actually prefer it to stay in close proximity to the present location/lakefront + convention center. A connected complex like that could be able to steal or better yet create its own "Comicon" type annual event, which would be like having a Super Bowl every year.

Clevelanders need more access to the actual water. Swimming beaches and launch points (kayaks, SUP's, jet skis, etc) each serve a distinct purpose for that. That being said I can't picture anyone using the river solely for swimming.

Damn. SANDAG Leader Says Peace Out The man who challenged San Diegans’ relationship with the automobile is hitting the road. Hasan Ikhrata, leader of San Diego’s most powerful transportation agency, will resign from the San Diego Association of Governments or SANDAG, Axios San Diego reported. He took the position in September of 2018. His last day is Dec. 29. For years the pugnacious leader fought to curb driving while also raising money for transportation projects by instituting a fee on drivers for every new mile. This was unpopular with conservative leaders of car-dependent North County. Progressive leaders of the region’s coastal and urban cities hated it too. SANDAG’s board of directors, stacked with politicians from all the major cities, twice voted to remove the fee from plans. However, Ikhrata insisted it, or something like it, would have to be part of any realistic plan to comply with commitments to combat climate change the state and region had already made. Otherwise, plans were "fake." https://voiceofsandiego.org/2021/12/08/the-last-waltz-of-sandags-mileage-fee/?utm_source=Voice of San Diego Master List&utm_campaign=7288849400-Morning_Report&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c2357fd0a3-7288849400-84112189&goal=0_c2357fd0a3-7288849400-84112189

My guess would be that before development came along the beaches were fairly large at the base of the cliffs. You can see similarity in cliffy places like Geneva on the Lake where development came more recently and far less dramatically than around Cleveland. Unfortunately with bad management the end result is not a good one. Then: Now:

You're suggesting we've all been "Thunderbirded" by nice pics again!!!!

This last one by @MayDaymakes me wonder about how the new builds will fill in and mesh with the WHD when all is said and done. The tower is just dwarfing those warehouses and it's not even topped off yet.

With a blank check it would be epic to turn the harbor breakwall into a more natural, partially exposed natural looking reef. This would be better for wetland restoration, habitat and the increased flow vastly improves water quality - not just for inner harbor but for the rest of Lake Erie. For that we would first need some new kind of engineering concept because the current practice of relocating dredge material within rocks just creates that dangerous steep dropoff issue: see NCH, Dyke 14, etc. So we all want real beaches and imho getting rid of the breakwall as-is would be the necessary start. A key issue however is sand. All this regrettable construction and destruction along the waters edge in Ohio has ruined the natural movement and accumulation of sand aka "littoral drift." Figuring this out is a difficult puzzle to solve even in places with far less-overdeveloped coastlines. Ohio is still doing really dumb things to exacerbate erosion, so in reality a large percentage of the actual beaches here are in danger of disappearing. Not good. Then again we have a blank check so we could maybe just buy all of Michigan's sand.

^ Marty you're killing me lol. Your entire point sounded to me like this would be easy and that all we needed was some sand, and that my mere mention of coastal engineering was "dramatic."

* there are actual beaches in and around town that could use the TLC

Fair point. Access to not just NCH but our entire lakefront needs drastic improvement. The beaches in Cleveland outside of Edgewater (talking east of downtown and NOT within the breakwall) are historically hard to get to as their almost all surrounded by private property. That coupled with really bad decisions made in the guise of erosion control have unfortunately led to a lot of the sand beaches disappearing almost entirely. It is sad to see old pics of what used to be. New access points to the actual water would be amazing but only if they could be designed safely. Launch areas for kayaks, SUPs etc. would be a huge. It would be very interesting to see what could be done with Wendy Park. There are a few key strikes against it as a swimming beach, but their initial wetland and boardwalk plans looked promising.

^^ I was at that Sinead concert at Music Hall, she put on one heck of a show.