surfohio

Sounds like one of MayDay's April Fools renderings!

In San Diego if you say "density" everyone thinks you mean "sprawl," as if those things are the same. They also think if we added more highway lanes that would fix the horrendous traffic problem....such bad planning out here. It's very unfortunate the city has grown up so reliant on the interstates for getting anywhere.

That was me in Arizona. Also just an FYI the Brooklyn Italians are a much storied soccer team in NYC. They even won the US Open Cup in 1991. https://www.brooklynitalians.org/

Here's a question...any idea if there's any momentum for opening up the north side of the existing tower with windows? I would imagine those lake views would be worth quite a bit.

There are a few mentioned in that Kent State dissertation I posted. Those should be prime candidates I would think. Really this should've been done years ago, but it's not too late.

I don't see any momentum for doing anything substantively beneficial. I think that is what's so frustrating for me personally. I've been downvoted into oblivion on reddit by for suggesting as much.

Again this is what I'm advocating for. Changing the name is just a symbolic gesture. While there is some value in that, I much prefer tangible contributions to Native peoples. The team and MLB have the resources and perhaps more importantly the visibility to encourage more private support.

This is the best I could find and it's worth a read....286 pages! There's indeed a diversity of opinions on the subject. NATIVE SUPPORT FOR CHIEF WAHOO August, 2012 Oda, another NatPride participant, acknowledged that "some people have a problem with [Chief Wahoo] because of the red feather," but she doesn't "see any problem with the mascot." Oda agreed that Chief Wahoo is "a caricature," but insisted that the logo's creation "had nothing to do with any prejudices against the Native Americans." "I don't have a problem with [the Cleveland Indians logo]," Oda said, "because that … keeps people thinking that, you know, there is a culture out there, and that culture is right here in the middle of the city." Similarly, Cheryl (NatPride) stated 197 that she "just love" the mascot and thinks it is "a positive thing" because it provides non-Native Ohioans with a point of reference when she discloses her Indian identity. "When you say you're Native American," Cheryl said, people sometimes respond – "Oh, you're a Cleveland Indian?" Cheryl laughed and continued, "Not quite, but … now you're understanding. Yeah, yeah, I wear the beads and the feathers." For Oda and Cheryl, Cleveland's Indian mascot is not problematic because it is a "feel good" image that draws attention to Indians in the NE Ohio environment. Interestingly, in the year that I knew Cheryl, I never saw her dressed in beads and/or feathers. She did not dance at powwows, and consequently, rarely (if ever) wore Indian regalia. The clothing she wore on a day to day basis was similar to that of any other middle aged woman in the United States. Cheryl, like other NE Ohio Natives, was rarely recognized as American Indian – maybe in part because she did not wear accessories such as beads or feathers to work or to the grocery store (for instance) – yet she did not link her racial miscategorization to the one-dimensional portrayals of Indianness to which NE Ohioans have been exposed. I did not interview any RelOH members who, like Oda and Cheryl, were staunch supporters of Cleveland's pseudo-Indian imagery, but they did exist. For instance, Berta told me about "a young Indian guy" she knows who "has a big Indian logo tattooed on his leg." She was "just shocked" when she saw it because he is "full blooded Native." Berta quickly explained that this young man believes Chief Wahoo is honorable because "he is … assimilated into the dominant culture." Susan similarly blamed processes of assimilation on some Natives' indifference to the issue. She talked about a different young man and RelOH member whom she overheard saying that Native protestors are "just old-fashioned." "How could you say that?" Susan thought when she overheard his statement; "You should be proud of your background, but you're not!" According to Susan, many non-protesting Native community members were young (urban) Indians who "grew up in [NE Ohio]" and "have nothing to do with their reservation at home, nothing to do with their culture, their language." "Basically," said Susan, "they're completely assimilated or something!" From NEGOTIATING AMERICAN INDIAN IDENTITY IN THE LAND OF WAHOO A dissertation submitted to the Kent State University College of Arts and Sciences in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=kent1342364012&disposition=inline

Because organized groups are not necessarily indicative of how representative they are. See The Tea Party.

The Brooklyn Italians are a storied soccer team in NYC. I have met a few Irish guys from Dublin that hate the ND logo. But are ambivalent about changing it. It's arguably offensive. But yes, if there has been polling on what Natives think of the term I'd be very interested in seeing results. Again, my guess would be that a significant number don't really care. Maybe the Indians fans I met were an outlier?

Well yeah, they were idiots I suppose! Hey mods can we get a separate thread for the name change issue?

Then perhaps you read where I suggested (and been suggesting for years) that the Cleveland Indians actually earn the name by supporting Native education, job training, internships, etc. And FYI the Ute Tribe supports Utah.

So the Native Americans who proudly call themselves "Indians" are ignorant, backwards, traitorous Uncle Tom's? Perhaps they just need enlightened and privileged white's to better educate them on their choices. Please.

Kind of yellow haha.

Thank you for your service then. That is awesome. But you're never going to get the Seminole Tribe to stop supporting Florida State University. You telling them they're wrong to do so is frankly condescending as all hell.

All right then, I'm glad to have a sincere discussion. I was on a reservation in Arizona and met several people wearing the Chief Wahoo hat. They were Indians fans. Now I don't know how many Indians fans there are among Native population, as far as I know there are no commissioned polling on that. But at least anecdotally I know that not all are offended by the name or even the logo. So I guess my point is don't assume that all people in a group think the same way.

So you don't go to Indians games then? Because if I were actually offended by the name I wouldn't 1. go see them play 2. listen to them on the radio and 3. hang around the CLEVELAND INDIANS DISCUSSION THREAD on urbanohio. But here you are.

I am not taking this in stride, yet at the same time I feel stupid, even a bit childish for caring so much for a sports team. But I was just talking to my neighbor and he is not happy at all. He's a diehard Tribe fan and his dad played for the Indians. He said he'll change his allegiance to the local team (Padres) if/when the team drops "Indians." I'm still holding out hope they'll keep the name and reach out to the native American community and offer tangible support. Imagine a deal where MLB and the Cleveland Indians can channel a percentage of merch sales into funds for education, jobs, training and cultural preservation efforts. There still haven't been any commissioned polls that have measured exactly where Native Americans stand on the issue. We obviously know there's some noteworthy protesters, and I've met Native Indians fans....but my guess would be the majority of them don't really care either way, but we just don't know. But again, I'd bet sentiments on the name would change if the Indians earned the goodwill that other teams have ie Seminoles, Utes, etc. I hate virtually all of the new name suggestions and I can hardly listen to Cleveland sports radio now because of drunk sounding people suggesting "The Cleveland Supermen" or "how about the Cleveland Cops or the Cleveland Lake Erie's" nonsense lol. All the good sports names have already been taken people.

^ This was great to see. Props to News5 for a very well done segment. * and yet another AG artist mural sighting!

My guy Jamel didn't grow up listening to a wide variety of music but he's quickly catching up. I really love these reaction videos I find them very moving.

There’s still a significant number of native Americans who proudly call themselves Indians. It just feels strange for white people to tell them they're wrong. Anyhow there’s an opportunity for something good to come out of this. Changing the name is symbolic and I understand the motive but that doesn’t really do anything. Keeping the name and doing actual concrete, substantive good works in the native communities would be much better imho.

Does anyone think the Braves, Chiefs and Florida State Seminoles will be changing their names? I personally don't see that happening. The name "Indian" is not offensive in the same way the term "Redskin" is. Actually I don't recall any significant momentum out there to change the name of the Cleveland Indians, just to change the cartoonish logo of Chief Wahoo. Oh well, I'll just keep supporting my college, the Akron Zips until they fold all their sports teams because of budget cuts.

When I was driving across country a few years ago I stopped at a reservation in Arizona. I realized I was wearing an Indians hat and put it away. You can imagine my surprise when I stopped at the store only to find several people wearing the Chief Wahoo hat. I asked them if they were fans and they said "of course we are...we are Indians!" I left it at that and went on my way. This is a complex issue here. My personal feeling, keep the name but make it count for something. Invest in Native American scholarships and do something real to honor the name and the heritage. I don't want my favorite team in all sports, the Cleveland Indians to disappear like my San Diego Chargers and the Cleveland Browns (1996-99).

^ do malls ever recover from this kind of incident?

^ Washington RedHawks!!!