LythamLight

^ Mixed feelings here. It’s unfortunate that the main industrial building isn’t financially feasible to rehab. It has a lot of charm and and could have provided the community with some unique space. Hopefully the new development has some character, quality and density. It is certainly better than leaving the site to deteriorate further.

I get that this is a development fourm and that NIMBY is going to be looked at negatively but I want to reiterate that there is a middle ground for everything. Without NIMBY and discussion you get developments that could have been a better fit for their community. Once these houses are built they will be there for 100+ years. It's not enough to simply insist that a development is good and that pushback is a waste of time. I'm glad you think the development will look good but the developers interest and the communities interest are likely at odds, so I hope there is compromise (density, design and funding structure for the schools). Not directed at this development in particular but the real shame to me is that we no longer develop anything other than tract housing. When I keep saying this growth would be better directed at Newark, it's because I admire the street grids of Newark with their connected neighborhoods, variety of architecture and walkability. Neighborhoods that have room for new development. Same thing with the Village of Granville, minus as much room for development. I guess it would be considered idealistic in our current reality but we as a society should consider ways to make this type of development feasible again. It just feels like the pendulum has swung too far one way. You're going off of anecdotal evidence without context (or sharing it). In my experience Granville schools do not throw away a lot of money. It just seems too easy to make that assumption because the community has a high median income. Additionally, the old football stadium was fairly small and basic. I personally don't support the amount of money spent on sports/sport facilities in this country (or this project in particular) but I don't think it's fair to paint Granville's priorities in a bad light when the project simply brought the football stadium up to the standards of stadiums in surrounding communities. Again, idealistic in today's world but it's a shame that we no longer build schools and facilities that inspire/encourage shared identity like Withrow and Walnut Hills in Cincinnati (or that are connected to the local community, like Granville elementary). I have seen this multiple times now and I am honestly curious what people would like to see Granville doing to prepare for growth? Not simply a statement that they should join some organization but what actual changes would help? The Village is built out so I don't see a lot of room for development inside it. There are acreage requirements for the townships and the available areas have been built out with subdivisions the last 20+ years. There isn't that much non-restricted farmland available to develop (especially towards Pataskala's direction). Are people on here simply frustrated that Granville has preserved green space and the townships have acreage requirements? It doesn't seem to be a big issue at this time as there are huge amounts of land that need to be developed down route 16 and 161 before reaching Granville. I'm not convinced that Columbus will still be growing as steadily by that time. If it is, it would seem beneficial to discuss making other parts of Ohio (long struggling) more attractive for growth.

I think of the green belts in England when I think of preserving green space. The one around London is 1,200,031 acres and the one around Manchester is 612,000 acres. For comparison, Columbus Metro Parks combined are 28,000 acres. Green belts aim to stop urban sprawl and preserve the character of towns. They’re not about the quality and appearance of the land, though I’m sure that’s a nice side benefit in some instances. We don’t have this (that I’m aware of) in America and its a shame. Granville’s green space program attempts to provide a similar function, on a much smaller scale. You can call this NIMBYism and nostalgic but there is real value there. Suburban development causes real issues and to simply dismiss this is shortsighted. Additionally, humans aren’t the only one’s that occupy this area and that needs to be respected. It won’t happen, but Columbus would benefit from a green belt around the outside of New Albany, Westerville, Delaware, etc. Perhaps that would encourage more dense, well planned developments, connected to serious mass transit. Not growing does not equate to decline. The earth has finite resources and we need to find a sustainable equilibrium. As societies become more prosperous and innovation spreads (i.e. vaccines, birth control, utilities, etc) birth rates decline. In the somewhat near future, population will peak. Additionally, America has had a huge advantage with the dollar being the world's reserve currency. There is no guarantee that this will continue, that the American economy will prosper or that America will continue to be attractive to foreigners/outside investment. The effects of climate change are also a huge wild card. At one point Cleveland and Cincinnati could make that claim as well. In 1950 Cincinnati had 503,000 residents; today that figure is 303,000. In the late 1920s the largest employer in Mansfield had 8,500 employees; today the largest employer in Mansfield has 2,500 employees. Things change. It might be remote work, artificial intelligence or something else, but Columbus and its suburbs will not grow forever. In sum, I am not against development but I'd like to see smarter development in areas that could benefit the most from it (while preserving green space).

I am trying to understand how Granville preserving green space hurts Newark (or the rest of Licking County). If anything, I'd think it helps Newark by pushing more development and business Newark's direction. Development that you say is a good thing. I think most Granville residents generally look at the green space program as trying to preserve the rural small town feel of the area, not as some buffer to keep Newark out. In my opinion, limiting development to specific areas should be more of a priority in this country (including greater Columbus). We can have smarter growth. Countries with higher population densities do it, such as England with their green belts. I think the issue that some may have is with the income inequality between the two communities. In my opinion, this is best solved by state and federal policies that reduce inequality, not trying to force Granville to develop further. We have plenty of land in this country, so preserving green space should not be an issues for communities that value a quieter/more rural environment. Additionally, perpetual growth is not guaranteed. At some point in the next few decades world population will stop growing. America already has way more retail space per square feet per capital than every other nation (ie US 23.5, Canada 16.8 Australia 11.2 and in fourth is the UK at 4.6). We need more sustainable planned development, rather than the idea that perpetual growth will continue. As I understand it, Moe's did not have a significant takeout/delivery business in Granville prior to Covid. Within a mile of the Granville location, Moe's had 5k residents versus 11k at their Newark location. I'm sure the population difference is even more extreme if you look at the two mile populations. In an environment that greatly favors takeout/delivery, Moe's was always going to have a significantly easier time finding business in Newark. Also, I presume the rent Moe's pays in Newark is significantly less than what it paid in Granville. Either way, Granville is about to get another BBQ place, so clearly others still see opportunity. Again though, this isn't Granville vs Newark. The two are neighbors and should use their differences to the advantage of both. I think Newark benefits from the lack of chain retail options in Granville and Granville benefits from having a more residential community for people who prefer that lifestyle. Yes, I stated Newark does not have a lot of diversity. 2019 estimates show Newark as 91% white. In comparison, Granville is roughly 90% white and the City of Columbus 60%. Looking at Newark schools specifically, it appears they have a 15% minority student body compared to the Ohio public school average of 30%. Regarding business, I don't deny that the business environment in Licking County and Newark are fairly strong (though State Farm did just leave). My point is that the types of businesses that bring diversity to an area aren't generally located in Newark (reflected by demographics mentioned above). Additionally, there aren't many ethnic grocery stores or restaurants in the area to attract more diversity. So those that claim that Granville has a diversity issue are overlooking the fact that there is nothing here to draw more diversity other than Denison and a few select businesses. Further, Granville has a high median income, so to see significantly more diversity in Granville would likely require corporate and research jobs that are willing to pay high incomes and sponsor foreigners. It would be wonderful if Newark had more of these types of jobs but it's not there yet. Even if those jobs existed though, it would take awhile for the demographics to change as many would likely prefer Columbus communities that already have a cultural base. Again, chicken or the egg. If you believe Granville should be attracting more diversity that isn't highly educated foreigners, we again need to be looking at policy at the state and federal level. Median income among whites is $65k vs $41k for blacks and $51k for Hispanics (wiki). High income communities are naturally going to be white because they have a higher median income. I personally believe reducing income equality is more likely to lead to diverse communities, rather than forcing them to change the ways they develop. Agree, great conversation. Newark has some great neighborhoods that have so much potential to develop further. I fear that Pataskala is growing without a plan. The future growth of Licking County will be interesting to follow.

Just my take, but I feel there is a strong shared identity in Granville which is often overlooked by those who argue Granville should just get onboard with Central Ohio organizations and large new developments. Granville isn't (or wasn't...) full of chains and I think most residents are likely happy to pay a "Granville Tax" if it means supporting local businesses that help create the feeling of community. In general, as large corporations/chains have come to dominate our lives, America has lost this feeling of community and shared identity. Perhaps Granville has some things to learn from these Central Ohio organizations but they should also take note and incorporate some of the things that make Granville a strong community. With a strong shared identity comes a willingness to pay high taxes to support the local school district, etc. Will the new residents of high density developments (such as this proposed Newark development in Granville schools) share in this identity and support the community? Also, will the new taxes to build a school lead to Granville residents who are less inclined the support future levies? I am inclined to say yes. As others have noted, the last few levies have been close. A fraying of the shared identity/community feel could certainly lead to a downfall in support for the schools. I also see the benefit of a smaller school system; it fosters a feeling of community. Students at Granville know and grow up with most of their fellow students, often from kindergarten through high school. Finally, I think it is too easy to say that Granville has a diversity issue of its own doing. More often than not, jobs are what attract people to an area, especially with people who don't already have a connection. Granville is mostly residential, so I assume most residents work in Newark, Columbus or at Denison. Newark does not have a lot of diversity or jobs that attract/sponsor foreigners. Columbus obviously has more of this, but I would assume that they prefer to stay in Columbus where there are more cultural resources (ie the large Asian market in Hilliard or the Kenny Rd Center). In the Newark/Heath/Granville area, it is more of a chicken or the egg question. As you see diversity grow in New Albany or Pataskala, I believe it will eventually bleed over into Granville and Newark. This is the attitude that has led to such a divided and greedy country - "Screw my neighbor, as long as I benefit". We shouldn't be looking at this as Granville vs Newark. A better alternative would be looking at what is best for the entire area. It's the same issue I had with Adam Weinberg's comments about Granville having too high of standards for business development on farmland along Route 16 in Granville. Is that what's best for the area? In my opinion, the Newark/Heath/Granville area would benefit more if the old Rockwell/Meritor site was redeveloped instead. Keep the standards high to develop this farmland and maybe Granville will land another research center similar to Owens-Corning.

So the argument is that development is fine even if it reduces the quality of life for current residents because it improves quality of life for new residents. If these developments (of some wealth) were not allowed to happen and those residents instead had to build new or revitalize property in another city, say Newark, would that not improve the quality of life for the existing residents of Newark? Or is it only new residents that we care about? I’m sure Newark would benefit more than Granville from “more customers and workers for local businesses, more taxes from the new incomes and properties, more parishioners for local churches, more caregivers, etc”. Granville has been mostly built out and sustainable for many years. It already supports the local businesses and institutions. Yes, development will occur. It has been happing for the last 20+ years but in sustainable ways - in part to township acreage standards and a green space program. What Granville should not do is lower development standards where high density housing and commercial is allowed; this would significantly alter the character of the community. The heart of the issue is schools. There is development pressure in Granville because people want their kids in the Granville school district. As a society we need to reduce inequality and fairly fund schools so that communities are on a more level playing field. There should not be this overwhelming demand to move to a certain community just for the schools. Also, Granville is not what New Albany was before it developed and I have a feeling that the new residents of New Albany would not have wanted the ‘opportunity’ to live there when it was just a little hamlet - two different types of people. I am less familiar with New Albany’s history though, so I digress.

You're right, Granville doesn't. Which is why Granville should maintain high standards so it doesn't lead to developments that drag the school system down once they age. It also speaks to our need as a society to reduce inequality and rethink school funding. We need our communities to be more sustainable rather than continually looking for the next area to develop.

^^ I think it needs to be said that it is alright not to desire growth. I find this especially to be true in a residential community like Granville. The first line in the Dispatch article makes it clear that those arguing Granville is difficult are those who are focused on making money off the Village - business investors and developers. How does more business and high density residential benefit the quality of life of Granville residents? Especially when said development will require tax increases to build a new school and increased traffic. The charm of Granville is its small town/rural feel with limited commercial. If thats what the residents want, why should they be criticized for it? There is a ton of land between New Albany and Granville left to be developed and Newark provides numerous revitalization opportunities.