Cincy1

The metro information is out - it will be interesting to see how this is covered in other areas. The numbers still seem off a little, but this is the final total. It's amazing how much Ikea has done for the area (it's a fine store, but that is sarcarsm). I do like the overall positive tone, which seems rare these days. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080327/NEWS01/803270372 Metro area now Ohio's biggest BY TONY LANG | [email protected] E-mail | Print | digg us! | del.icio.us! | Click-2-Listen The 15-county Cincinnati metropolitan area, which includes seven counties in Northern Kentucky and three in Southeast Indiana, now ranks as Ohio's largest metropolitan area. Census estimates released today show the area has overtaken metro Cleveland in total population the last two years. Dallas-Fort Worth led all metros in one-year gain, adding 162,250 people to its rolls. Even Hurricane Katrina-ravaged New Orleans ranked as the eighth-fastest-growing metro area in percentage growth with a 4 percent population gain. But Greater Cincinnati added 12,550 people to rank 24th in population. Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor slipped to 25th, with a loss of 8,808.

I posted this on the Cincy population thread, but here are the components for the metro. This would take a little time for someone to do all the metros listed. The changes are listed in "number per thousand" format. I show a net of 12,566 - slightly different from the number above (probably rounding). The biggest concern for Cincinnati is that we are still on the negative side of US Migration. Not a big number, but it had been trending down and looked like it might be better this year. There are still a lot of US cities that have this issue, including places like DC, but they make up for it with an even larger number of births over deaths and very large international migration: Births Deaths US Migration International Migration Total 30011 18042 -1768 2365 12,566

After thinking about this, something with the MSA population did not seem right so I looked at information on the Census website. Although they have not given the official metro count, they have all the changes in rates per thousand per county so you can do the calculations. There might be some discrepancies, but this should be close. For the metro I show these numbers: Births Deaths US Migration International Migration 30011 18042 -1768 2365 This nets out to an increase of 12,566, so if you use 822,596 for Hamilton County and 2,104,000 for the metro in 2006 we are around 2,116,500 in 2007. If the bump to the county of 25,000 was truly incorporated the metro should be 2,141,500 so I cannot figure out where the 2,133,678 number is coming from. I am still inclined to assume we are closer to the lower one. 2006 822,596 2007 842,369 The MSA is at 2,133,678.

Sweet 16 for X - congratulations to the team. They now face West Virginia and coach Huggins, which will make for interesting story lines. Xavier's offense clicks as Musketeers kick Purdue out of tourney · Mar 22, 2008 @XAV 85, PUR 78 Recap | Box Score WASHINGTON (AP) -- If Purdue could have picked one or two players from Xavier to focus upon, then surely the Boilermakers would have had an easier time fulfilling their reputation as one of the best defensive teams in the Big Ten. Purdue, however, discovered what many Atlantic 10 teams already know: The X-men are simply too balanced. Even if you find a way to stop a couple of them, two or three others are more than capable of taking over the offensive load. C.J. Anderson and Drew Lavender each scored 18 points, Josh Duncan had 16, Stanley Burrell added 11 and two other Musketeers scored eight apiece Saturday in an 85-78 victory that carried Xavier into the semifinals of the West Regional. The Musketeers (29-6) shot 54 percent in breaking the single-season school record for wins and setting up a meeting with seventh-seeded West Virginia, a surprise winner over Duke, on Thursday in Phoenix. More at http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=284000041

The Zumbiel Packaging plan was imploded today to make room for Xavier Square - with video included. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Dato=20080322&Kategori=VIDEO&Lopenr=80322001&Ref=AR http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080322/NEWS01/303220025 Down with a 'boom' BY HOWARD WILKINSON | [email protected] E-mail | Print | digg us! | del.icio.us! | Click-2-Listen It took only seconds this morning to bring down the six-story Zumbiel Packaging plant in Norwood, to make way for a new development at Xavier University. Click link for article

Oh, there's no question that Cincinnati has had a much tougher situation due to (again) a historical provincial suburban inner-ring versus Columbus' stunted growth until the 70's. That's why I said "Cincinnati wishes it had it" blah blah. Overall, I guess it is just important to realize there are differences as a result. Plenty of other cities are in the same situation. We know the usual suspects, but even great cities like Boston and Washington are locked in and have both gone from over 800,000 at their peaks to the 500's. We all want to promote the core city, but it is why I always make the distinction and consider the metro to be a more accurate measure of a market than the city. The metro at least has some economic patterns behind it versus arbitrary boundaries.

I think this points out one of the major differences - Columbus got much of the land before it was developed when it could, and some by power-play. If it has not gotten the land then it will not now (e.g. Bexley). Cincinnati developed much earlier and cities incorporated before this notion of annexing to the extent that some "home" cities do today. I actually knew someone at the Cincinnati Water Works and asked about using water service as a tool for getting more area annexed to the city. He basically said that is not a tactic they wanted to take. Probably noble in a sense, but also frustrating.

Didn't Columbus get much of their annexation through water service - or the lack thereof? Just clarifying as it was not like there was a bunch of suburban communities who felt they had to be part of the city. I am not saying this was not a smart move.

^ Fair enough - I misinterpreted that part of your post.

I figure a nice come-back win was worth at least one post. Way to take a hot team's best shot and turn the game completely around. XU finds its toughness Uninspired start prompts coach's halftime lecture BY DUSTIN DOW | [email protected] WASHINGTON - The halftime speech was not planned in advance. It was a gut reaction by Xavier coach Sean Miller to stare into the faces of his three seniors - Stanley Burrell, Drew Lavender and Josh Duncan - and challenge their bravery. "Where's your heart?" Miller shouted at them. "Where's your toughness?" So Miller continued. He told them they looked scared of the magnitude of the first-round game. "You're going to end your career like that?" he asked the seniors. No, no they weren't. Inspired by Burrell's emotion and defensive intensity and Duncan's free-throw shooting, Xavier overwhelmed Georgia in the second half, rolling to a 73-61 victory in front of 18,400. More at http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080321/SPT0102/803210433/1065/SPT

If it bothers you so much why comment, and why do focus so much on this topic. Cincinnati is actually pretty new to the whole challenge thing - look at St. Louis, who has been doing this for a long time. Why not relax and wait for the 2010 census, which could quite possibly result in the Cincinnati-Dayton metroplex? If Indy is so great why was there a need to expand the city limits to the county to boost population - does that also seem unhealthy by trying to present an image that is not completely accurate? Was it to say the city was bigger than other cities that it is clearly not? I do not see them challenging this year as the restated number already has the metro at 2,133,000 for 2007 - personally I suspect it is closer to 2,113,000 or slightly higher.

I am not completely sold on the revisions and think it would probably be wise to assume Hamilton County is closer to 817,000 than 842,000 until the census. Interestingly the paper shows that Clermont and Butler increased by over 4,000 each, but I have seen other numbers that show them as increasing by 1,000 and 3,000 respectively - these were based on numbers that were components of the 2006 estimate. Anyway, the 2006 estimate used 822,000 for Hamilton County as part of the 2,104,000 figure. Therefore, I am going with 817,000 for Hamilton this year, but I am going to bump Clermont and Butler up by a total of 4,000 (for an increase of 8,000) to arrive at the scientific estimate of 2,113,000 for the MSA. An increase for the metro of 9,000 is safe and probably conservative considering we have averaged 15,000 per year since 2000. Has the official MSA been posted anywhere yet or is this only at the county level at this point? It seems these numbers shift a little prior to the roll-up.

Not bad - so 500 are going to be completely new hires, and some (I think less than a 100 already here) moved locally, with the rest being moved from other locations. The good news for us is that this will mean increased relo activity on the plus side.

^ Yes - it is somewhere in the thread, but I think it is supposed to begin in June.

New Orleans is a great place to visit, but I am always struck with how nasty some of the neighborhoods are (pre-Katrina). On the plus side the French Quarter is a great place to party and it is a city where you can really feel the history. It has a definite vibe. Great photos by the way - I have always liked the shots from the narrow streets of the Quarter peeking into the financial district. I did take a trolley tour one time, and all the statues with the soldiers on horses have a meaning. Something like the front, right leg in the air meant they died in battle, and the left in the air meant they went on to greater glory. Kind of mundane but interesting. I also remember the first time I went with my family and was very young - that was the first time I saw women swinging out of windows in the "clubs". One of the ladies with pasties invited me in for a look, and my mother pulled me away pretty quickly. An odd memory that has stuck with me for a long time.

Getting Thurman and Pollack back would be huge - those were big factors in the defensive problems. I agree about the draft, and it does not seem they are set on one defense or the other so the players they get through that and free agency will decide it. My gut instinct is that Pollack will not return though. Hearing him talk makes it clear that football is not everything, and if he thinks there is any chance of another injury he will turn to broadcasting.

I am not too disappointed over Justin Smith - Mr. 2 sacks and a "high motor". The money he got is ridiculous for his production. He has a lot of tackles, unfortunately most of them are 8 yards down the field - not good for a defensive lineman. On the good news front, the Bengals got Odom, and Bengals.com states the deal is done: Full story: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080303/SPT02/303030065 After near misses on trades for defensive tackles Shaun Rogers and Dewayne Robertson, the Bengals are finalizing a deal with free agent defensive end Antwan Odom, who had eight sacks last season for Tennessee. The terms of the deal are five years, $29.5 million, with $11.5 million in guaranteed money. The Bengals are considering a switch to the 3-4 defense, but the best fit of personnel will be the ultimate factor in whether a change in the base defense is made.

Natiton - sorry.

The only way to make any comparison is to make it valid. For example, if you took 1950 Columbus by boundary and compared that population by the same boundary today you would see there are fewer people. I don't know about Indianapolis, but I do know the boundaries are different. Your argument is apples to oranges. Very few cities with the same boundaries have gained population since then - I know Atlanta is growing now, but I do not know the 1950 population. Additionally, metro population is what drives most measures of a market these days. It would be nice to have 400 square miles to work with though. As a non-Cincinnatian who has read a lot of city boards over the years, I can say that my personal experience is that Cincinnati boosters take top prize with over the top proclamations about how great Cincy is and how lame other peer cities are. In fact, a common theme is people in Cincinnati talking about how they should really be compared to St. Louis and Atlanta, etc. instead of against Indy and Columbus, whom Cincinnatians seems barely to deem worth consideration. Cincy is an awesome city with the best collection of assets of any similar sized metro in the entire United States. It is a city I believe has enormous potential. But it is also indisputable that Cincy is one of the handful of all time greatest decline stories in US history. Along with St. Louis, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, it was a one time top rank city - #5 in population in the US at its peak I believe - that has fallen to third tier relative status. Whatever their faults, Indy and Columbus are at the peak relative importance as cities in their history and still on an upswing. And more people are voting with their feet to go to those cities. That says a heckuva lot about them. I don't suggest Cincy should wallow in woe is me, but a little humility would certainly be in order. Other than the remnants of its once golden past, largely under-exploited, I don't see why Cincinnati would feel so superior other other 1-2 million population Midwestern metros.

I think we all know that this is officially the East End, but for me this is close enough. I actually think they should expand the boundaries. It is already included in what the city is calling the "Greater Downtown" area - why not make it official.

I'd give this guy credit for being downtown at that location, but this letter is like a bad reminder of why some projects take so much time - too much waffling and what if's without making a conscious decision to get something done. Unfortunately for us, that behavior has been exhibited from some of our leaders.

This one was only a matter of time - reports started in early February, and my guess is that airlines started putting feelers out as soon as Delta and Northwest got serious. For Delta/NW there have been reports of promises from Delta the CVG hub will stay in tact (only time will tell how good those promises are), and hopefully for Ohio's sake there are some guarantees for Cleveland. The government scrutiny can help both, but I think both are going to be downsized some.

Wow - the Gateway Quarter is looking great. Those are some crisp, clear shots of the city.

This is old, but I just saw it on local news - does Forbes do anything but lists? I guess at least they used market information, but the publication is losing credibility with the tabloid type topics. I am only posting because Cincinnati and Columbus are on it. America's Most Lustful Cities Rebecca Ruiz, 12.17.07, 6:00 PM ET In Pictures: America's Most Lustful Cities Over the next seven weeks, we'll reveal the areas of the country that most often commit what are commonly known as the seven deadly sins: gluttony, greed, lust, sloth, envy, wrath and pride. More at: www.cnn.com

^ Agreed - I have been twice and think the museum is awesome, especially if you take your time. Overall a captivating story to tell and very educational. I would say overall the message is one of inspiration. BDRUF - you are right about the Hofbrauhaus and aquarium. They were slated for the riverfront but the Banks working group insisted on having the entire plan in place instead of assigning it out as parcels. They did not want to wait.