John Schneider

I doubt most Cincinnatians have any idea how nice Cincinnati's streetcar will be. Won't see Tucson's until next month, but it's def better than the ones in the Pacific NW. Ride quality will be the real test.

^ Correct.

^ Yeah, I think we really need these.

A problem with LRT's running on MLK is the dip at Eden Avenue where a multi-car light rail train would "bottom-out" there, requiring a fairly long bridge over that intersection. And apparently, in additon to the cost, planner- and architect-types at UC and the medical campus objected to such a structure. Maybe Stetson Square weighed-in on it .... can't recall. But the topography of MLK is problematic for light rail. Maybe technology has overcome this, I dunno. As I recall, though, it was a daunting problem. Also a problem, icing on MLK, which brings traffic to a half there some days. Rail would fare even worse with ice conditions than cars. I think it has to go to Erkenbrecker and find a way out through Avondale to the east. David Cole and I spent several hours one Sunday a few years ago trying to figure this out, and we weren't smart enough.

I've been told by several people that owners of the Dispatch are particularly opposed to rail and that they have made their views clear to Mayor Coleman.

I suspect that the big money was out to get Mallory from day 1. David Pepper was their guy just like Cranley is their guy. Perhaps if Pepper had been elected in 2005 the streetcar project would have been carried out relatively smoothly. Although he never used the word streetcar, in the 2005 Mayoral debate David Pepper said something like (and I'm paraphrasing here as it was a decade ago) "we need 21st century transportation to run from the banks and connect to UC up the hill" David Pepper worked diligently behind the scenes to kill support for MetroMoves in the business community. He is not a friend of higher-level transportation.

You absolutely nailed it here. Other conservative towns haven't had this level of fighting over transit issues either. Cincinnati's old guard likes the broken status quo. For Cincinnati's sake, I just hope Cranley is only a 1 term mayor. I beg to differ here. Cincinnati has seen some of the worst of it, but right now there is a hellacious fight going on in San Antonio that's probably going to go to the ballot. The City of Milwaukee has been fighting over rail with the county that dominates it for more years than we have. It took Phoenix five tries before they voted for light rail; Kansas City - seven before they gave up and decided to build a modern streetcar. Indianapolis is probably the most anti-transit city in the nation; the state legislature there just authorized them to have a local transit vote but stipulated that they can't even consider building rail. Houston fought over rail for years, and Congressman Culbertson there has been kind enough to insert language in the Federal transportation bill to prohibit more rail money from going to Houston. Our opponents are particularly nasty (and thankfully ineffective) but only by a matter of degree.

^ This is an interesting discussion. We need to distinguish between economic benefits (which disregard taxes since they are transfer payments) and economic impacts (which value taxes and wages). Most economists prefer to express the worth of investments according to their benefits whether they pay taxes or not. I wouldn't discount UC simply because it doesn't pay taxes. The more it grows, the more students and employees it will have, and they will spend more money on housing and entertainment. Rail opponents like Randal O'Toole dismiss any public investment along a rail line, saying it is not worthy simply because the private market did not create it. That's wrong.

^ I hear the Vine Street merchants don't want it on Vine.

^ You will never be able to route a streetcar through Eden Park. Never in a million years. I think you'd even have a problem getting it on Victory Parkway.

Very prescient.

A crossing rail starts off as a solid block of steel, and by subtractive manufacturing, they carve away pieces of it to make a solid + When you see one of these pieces lay in the street, think $50,000 or so.

Most logical map I've seen so far.

I think McMillan becomes a slower-moving two-way streetcar/auto street and Taft becomes a two-way, fast-moving street.

My comment was more general: if it's a one-way loop, even if every destination you want to get to is somewhere on that loop, then unless it is a very elongated loop, then you will have to go out-of-direction, sometimes a long way out-of-direction, to make the return trip. If the loop is elongated like we're building it in the CBD and OTR, the you can walk a short distance to close the loop. You can travel both directions easily. I guess my conclusion is, the Uptown Streetcar wants to be linear. I think it goes to the Zoo and turns east on Erkenbrecker to Burnet and then turns right onto Burnet, ending in the middle of the medical campus and reversing direction for the return trip to The Banks. I see two Uptown streetcar lines - something like that and a second line from Hughes Corner to DeSales Corner, something that would really boost development east of U.C. and add value to underparked Clifton Heights. A really good interchange @ Corryville somewhere. This east/west line really has a lot of potential.

Is the narrow black line that goes through both UC campuses a one-way route? If so, you need to rethink this.

You are sort of at the epicenter of streetcar construction right now.

^ Yes, 12th and Race to Central Parkway and Walnut will be a turn-back zone where the route can be shortened if need be -- say if there were a major fire somewhere in OTR. Or maybe for festivals in the CBD. The tracks will cross each other at 90 degrees. About the only issue I see, is that there will be a lot of wires, not only wires to power the streetcars going in both directions but also probably some support wires to carry the power wires. On the other hand, it's the best place to be in the entire basin if you want to live your life around the streetcar.

I've started these trips from both ends. Entering from OTR seems more comprehensible in terms of the big picture here, eliminating wasteful backtracking. standing at McMicken and Race, you can really see how bad it is. Also better to get the tough part of the trail out of the way up front. The last 1,000 feet of the half-mile path, now marked with white tape, is a piece of cake. Plus water in the convenience store where we rejoin Vine before starting to return to downtown.

^ No, but I hope to take him and other electeds on the route soon.

^ The economics are pretty compelling. Lower construction and operating costs and millions of dollars in time savings for users of the streetcar. There will be some minor demolition. Some pretty major re-grading.

After thinking about this, it might be because it would allow the streetcar to continue at-speed onto Vine, though I'm not sure of the technicalities here. Because of the traffic volumes and downhill speeds on Vine south of McMillan, I think they are going to want more than a signal. Probably gates with flashing lights and a flasher a block or so upstream and downstream of the gates, which would be a little south of Hollister in the plan Jules Rosen and I have been developing.

^ So far as I know.

^ Guessing there would be gates that close over Vine.

^ Don't think there's a stop @ Polk - more likely a few hundred feet north of there. One of these days after we've perfected it, I'll post a map. However, restoring the Polk to Conklin Steps connection to Clifton Heights and Little Bethlehem in Lower Mt. Auburn would be terrific.