John Schneider

^ We need to keep dealing with them. The wisest person I know reminded me today that "we're running a marathon here, not a sprint."

^ I've been going there long enough to remember when it wasn't such a great place. Turned around totally in fifteen years.

^ This is why we take people to Portland, though Sheriff Leis was already out there for a law enforcement convention when I met up with him. He was Visitor # 402. Seeing is believing.

^ Boise didn't get $65 million from the Feds. There's really no firm plan or consensus there. Supported by the mayor but otherwise a lot of opposition including from the newspaper, especially the newspaper.

Just to refresh our memories of how far we've come ... U.S. and Canadian Streetcar and Light Rail Cities Systems Now in Operation: 1) Baltimore 2) Boston 3) Buffalo 4) Calgary 5) Camden/Trenton 6) Charlotte 7) Cleveland 8) Dallas 9) Denver 10) Edmonton 11) Houston 12) Kenosha 13) Little Rock 14) Los Angeles 15) Memphis 16) Minneapolis 17) Newark 18) New Orleans 19) Northern New Jersey 20) Philadelphia 21) Phoenix 22) Pittsburgh 23) Portland 24) Sacramento 25) St. Louis 26) Salt Lake City 27) San Diego 28) San Francisco 29) San Jose 30) San Juan 31) Seattle 32) Tacoma 33) Tampa 34) Toronto Systems under Construction: 1) Norfolk 2) Tucson 3) Washington D.C.

^ McMicken to McMillan to Hughes Corner is very doable. In fact, were it not for the additional cost -- an extra two miles of track -- it scores highest among all the alternatives.

^ Remember: whatever the plan is, they will always demand another plan.

Personally, I think the streetcar is going to help immensely with Reds and Bengals game. Biggest attraction on the line? I don't know, there are many, but as someone who has attended 18 Reds home games so far this season and usually partakes in enjoying an alcoholic beverage or two, the streetcar is going to be an awesome way to get from the stadium to various bars to celebrate a Reds victory. Earlier in the summer I went to the Famous Neon's Unplugged, my new favorite bar in the city and was planning to attend a Reds game with friends after. As a responsible adult, I felt it was not in my best interest to drive from 12th street to somewhere on the riverfront and pay an audacious amount for parking. I have no problem walking, but it was incredibly hot. I ended up splitting a cap with some nice random folks and that was great. After the game I tried to convince some friends to walk with me back to Neon's, they were not interested in the walk though or splitting a cab. I made the walk, the whole time thinking about how I couldn't wait for the streetcar. I doubt monorails are our future. We need to restore the level of life to grade in our city. I'm guessing the skywalk system in Cincinnati will gradually be taken down as parts of it need substantial repairs and few people will see the need to keep it going. I hope so. I know lots of people who hope so. The consultants don't think the streetcar will be heavily used by Reds and Bengals fans. I forget the number of projected game-day passengers -- it's in the report on the City's site -- but it's expected to be less than 1% of attendees for both. I think they're wrong. They're using a "limit model" which assumes that everyone will only want to come an hour or less before the game and leave immediately after. So ridership is limited by the capacity of the several cars that would travel in those narrow time frames. But I can imagine a lot of people coming to the new beer garden or just enjoying the new park before and after the game, kind of drifting in and out of the riverfront precinct over a long period of time. That was always the idea behind the Banks -- to prolong visits and capture more dollars in the city. I can really see the incentive for Bengals games -- parking for free in OTR and avoiding $20 parking charges near PBS. And what kid wouldn't want to go to a Reds game on a train? From time-to-time, there are stories of SuperBowls held in modern light rail cities where a huge percentage of fans come by train -- like 25 to 50%. So I agree with you. On the episodic example you gave of a late night walk that could have been avoided by the presence of a streetcar, I don't doubt that will happen. But this is sort of the converse of the argument for high-capacity transit serving our stadia. To run rail efficiently, you need high volumes most of the time. Especially with a piece of equipment that probably costs $150 an hour or so to run. Have three of them running until the bars close, that's $500 an hour. I doubt the benefits of accomodating those kind of one-off trips come anywhere near covering the costs. And here's the real risk. If the ridership turns out to be scarce at late at night, management will take notice, and sooner or later, the hours will be cut back. Then you'll wake up to this Enquirer headline: "Low ridership forces streetcar service cutbacks." Anybody want to take that risk? Better to start with a more conservative schedule so we get this kind of headline" "Streetcar expanding hours of operation."

^ I wonder how many casino players would use public transportation. The Las Vegas Monorail, which connects directly to many of the casinos on the Strip never achieved even half its projected ridership, defaulted on its bonds, and is now in receivership.

Here's when the Portland Streetcar operates: 5:30am to 11:30pm Monday-Friday 7:15am to 11:45pm Saturday 7:15am to 10:30pm Sunday Portland's had nine years to experiment with this schedule, and so I assume it's perfected by now. And Portland's bar/restaurant scene is much more robust than Cincinnati's - can't remember the closing hours, but it's pretty late and we've closed a few over the years. Portland's downtown population appears to be a lot younger than Cincinnati's, and the streetcar passes through the largest college campus in Oregon. Ten thousand people live in the Pearl District alone, probably at least 5,000 more in downtown, around Portland State and at the South Waterfront. And Portland Streetcar Inc. seems to have adequate funding for operations. I've been on the last streetcar of the day in Portland many times, and seldom see more than a handful of passengers unless I'm leading a group that's ending up its tour for the day. I also ride it a lot on Saturday and sometimes on Sunday mornings. Again, hardly anyone ever on it until 9:00a or after. There are always trade-offs. Do you want greater frequency of service, longer hours or operation, or lower fares? To me, just from experience, after-midnight operation seems to be a stretch. There are always cabs for that.

^ Is this a legitimate public purpose? Just framing from the perspective of an average Cincinnatian.

^ Fare policy and enforcement and integration with Metro would seem to be the biggest questions to me. And they're operating too many hours a day, at least to start -- like, do you think there will be a lot of riders at 6:00a on Sunday? Think it needs to run until 1:00a weekdays?

^ Great observation.

^ In November, 2008, following a summer of $4.00 gas, every one of the ten rail issues on the ballot nationwide passed, some in California by super-majorities. Billy Cunningham is a closet rail supporter, always has been.

I wanted to expand on Brad's posting of the vote percentages, by jurisdiction, for MetroMoves in 2002. When the dust settled, we looked at how the issue performed within the city limits. If you were to draw a conceptual bubble map of the support for rail, it would start at the Ohio River, move north through OTR and Clifton Heights, Clifton and Corryville before morphing east on a line through Evanston and Hyde Park that stops at Oakley, say. If you added up all the votes along this fat line, MetroMoves won by 51-49. Which is one reason why I think the Wasson Line is better for the Eastern Corridor than the Oasis line. Their is probably good neighborhood support for rail along Wasson. MetroMoves passed by something like 62% in downtown and OTR. Defining Uptown as the area included within the 2004 Uptown Transportation Study -- a really large part of Cincinnati that includes what we all think of as "Clifton" plus parts of Mt. Auburn, Walnut Hills, Avondale and Evanston -- MetroMoves passed 53-47%. So when we first proposed the Cincinnati Streetcar in 2006, we limited it to Over-the-Rhine and Downtown, feeling we wouldn't have a Nimby problem. Which was a good bet, as it turns out -- no one in downtown or OTR has complained about rail (without basis) the way suburban communities sometimes do -- you know, more crime, noise, blocked traffic, danger to children. Never happened. Had we picked a route that had traveled to less-friendly areas, the Nimby's in those neighborhoods nught have mobilized early to kill the streetcar before it could gain critical mass. Council members would have backed away from it. This is what happened with the I-71 line. Early-on, one couple in Deer Park (who OKI chose not to hire to do photographic work for the project) decided to oppose the project. They were very effective in mobilizing their neighbors, and soon the entire LRT project team was summoned to Deer Park High School's auditorium for questions and what amounted to a public whipping. Deer Park then mobilized Norwood and Sycamore Township to oppose, and so soon it appeared we no longer had a route to get to Blue Ash. Then they started working on other communities outside the city, mostly townships. Ths is what happens when you get motivated Nimby's, though the motives of the Deer Park couple still remain in quesion in my mind. So, in retrospect, the initial proposal to put the streetcar Downtown and in OTR where it was wanted was a good one. We avoided a lot of early controversy that could have stopped it cold.

MetroMoves lost in the City of Cincinnati.

^ Jim's right. Many Cincinnatians suffer from a scarcity mentality -- if someone gains, then someone must necesarily lose. It has held us back for many years.

Seattle's South Lake Union Trolley follows a virtually flat alignment from Westlake Center north to the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. The only slope anywhere in the system is the short spur that runs east off the mainline up to the car barn, and the streetcars run empty on that track. There is no similarity to the route planned for Cincinnati's first streetcar line. Seattle rarely has snow at sea level. Perhaps never. And there are few deciduous trees to gum up the rails in the fall and winter. LK must be confusing Seattle's electric buses with its streetcar.

^ I wouldn't count on much ridership from Uptown until they extend the network to Ludlow, the Zoo or Children's -- wherever the final destinations are. I mean, how much ridership would we get out of the CBD if the streetcar never made it south of Central Parkway? Clifton to McMillan is, by far, the best chance of generating some Phase 1 revenue from Uptown -- if they can make the grade.

^ I'm sure you'll be buying a fare ticket or pass that enables you to ride for specified time, whether it's a couple of hours, a day, a week, a month or maybe even a year. It won't be "per ride."

I'm not so sure about that. While it's true there would be no population gain, there would likely be an economic gain for Cincinnati were this to happen. The reason is, much of the Westwood resident's spending probably takes place outside the city limits, whereas a city resident, especially one content to drive little or not at all, will buy goods locally and focus his or her spending power within the city, probably within a half mile of the streetcar line. These people will also buy more services from vendors inside the city limits. My wife and I are perfect examples. What we don't buy on eBay, we buy from vendors in Downtown and OTR almost exclusively. So I think the gravitational pull of Cincinnati residents back to the center, even if it doesn't result in population growth, probably results in net new economic activity. Plus, consider what happens to the old house in Westwood. With higher fuel prices, it might well be reoccupied by someone who would might have otherwise lived in Green Township, say. This discussion is at the heart of the streetcar debate. The streetcar's great, but it is more fundamentally part of a plan to densify the city and capture more of the spending of people who hold well-paying jobs in Downtown and Uptown. Sure, we get their taxes now. But we need their spending too. And, perhaps more importantly, their civic engagement.

Portland, with more than 12,000 riders a day, gets about $5,000 per year for advertising on its shelters. So Cincinnati's 18 stops mighty yield, at most, $90,000. I think Portland also gets about $25,000 per year for sponsors to put their names on the streetcars. We'll have seven streetcars. So doing the math, maybe $300K from advertising, tops. Probably less. Fares, I dunno. When you factor in monthly and yearly discounted passes and fare evasion, I doubt it adds up to a million dollars a year. So fares and advertising maybe pay half the bill. There will be other sources of funds. More than half the operating budget, I'm guessing.

^ There will be other sources of funds.

^ San Antonio

I believe the plan is still have the northern OTR loop go on Henry St., not McMicken which all other maps show. Read my posts from last summer on reasons for that change. I believe Elder and Green are the streets that will be used to tie into the Uptown Spur. There is a good collection of engineers/project managers that have been working on this since Spring '09. Most of the work I was apart of will start this fall with utility relocations. Michael Moore, City Engineering, would be a good person to contact or Fred Craig at Parsons Brinckerhoff. I think they're looking at reworking and using Findlay as the crossover in order to reduce the distance riders have to reverse direction. i.e. not going as far south as Elder or Green. It's a tough puzzle.